Great job so far everybody! But again, please see as many videos of others as possible and read my comments to others too - the more you read and the more videos you watch, the easier it will be to understand what you're going for and see it in real speed too.
Anyway, here is your new list:
1. gradually make that plank/set-up higher&higher, still jackpotting the best hits, but make a criteria for a jackpot somewhat more strict and at this point also stop clicking misses and almost-misses, even if the dog is striding equally. Jackpot really good hits only. It's no problem if the dog still gets the toy on every try, just take it immediately when he comes back. When it's good, praise and tug and when it's especially good, be especially excited and play especially enthusiastically 🙂 And yes, dogs are smart enough to know the difference.
2. as the dog is probably already searching for the plank better, slowly start throwing sooner&sooner. Don't rush it, but you eventually want to throw that soon that the dog is technically running to a static toy. But again, you don't want to get there sooner as in 3 weeks as it's only then that we'll start using a static toy - you do want to throw it for those 3 weeks more! It's better to throw somewhat longer if necessary - usually not an issue with BCs, but with my PyrShep puppy, I needed to throw VERY long to keep the speed and forward focus - if any of that gets weaker when you start throwing sooner, go back to whatever gives you back the speed and forward focus, we can deal with the rest later!
3. as you are still throwing a toy, your movement and position probably won't affect the dog's performance - but just to be sure, do try to run with the dog here and there, just to check if that's correct. If it does affect your dog's performance, add movement gradually, by first walking slowly along, then walking faster, running slowly etc. You don't need to do it on every try, especially not if it doesn't affect the performance, but do try it here and there.
4. another difficulty we can slowly start introducing now is changing starting position of your dog. If you use a low DW, you can use different approaches instead. Don't use the best spot all the time anymore, but vary it a little bit. If it makes their hits too bad, go back to the good starting position. But bad hit here and there is good, that's how they learn the difference between what gets rewarded and what doesn't.
5. new trick: shape a dog to go with all 4 feet in a box that is ideally as long as he is. Then gradually use smaller&smaller objects, your goal is the dog is standing with 4 feet in a small bowl. Good for balance and rear legs awareness! Also, teach backing up with you standing still, by throwing a reward for them first for one step back, then two and then add more&more distance. Great for rear legs awareness and coordination!
Grace & I had our first training session on our plank tonight. I think she got a few really good ones
I’m getting much better at knowing which ones to reward-much easier w the contact area (although i did accidentally reward the last one). I’m jackpotting the good ones w a tug game
Looks great!!! A couple of more sessions like that and you can as well raise the plank some!
Hello,
httpv://www.dailymotion.com/video/k12J5lBM8hDgNT2ppVO
Voici ma dernière session de lundi. Une seule mauvaise sur 16, plus ou moins basses sur la zone. J’ai un peu relevé la DW et sur cette vidéo il y a un tunnel et un saut en fin de DW. DW main droite c’est le tunnel et en main gauche le saut à 5 -- 6 m. Il me semble qu’elle arrive mieux à gérer DW + obstacles après; elle arrive mieux à se concentrer Qu’en penses tu ? J’ai envie d’essayer la prise du slalom après la zone en le mettant à 7 -- 8m et avant d’essayer avec un tunnel entre les 2.
This is my last session on Monday. Only one wrong, more or less bass in the area. I just put higher the DW and in this video with a tunnel and a jump at the end of DW. Right hand it’s the tunnel and left hand a jump, at 5 to 6 m. I think she is better able to managing obstacles after DW, she is better able to focus her. What do you think? I want to try the slalom after DW by keeping to 7 -- and 8 m, before trying that with a tunnel between the two.
Looks good! You can definitely start putting it in little sequences, changing approaches etc. and if that all goes well also add some height again. Great job!
I am a little perplexed. I looked through Spur’s RDW training history and he sure was trained going into nothing as you can see from this video from last winter. And even with the ball tossed in advance. Curious that now it is so hard for him?
The only difference I see now is he head doesn’t come up when the ball is tossed after. But, I don’t really think it affects his speed all that much. I also see that one hind leg stride occured even back then. This video was from February.
Yes, but going into nothing with a toy tossed in advance is easy, probably the easiest situation. It only gets hard when there is nothing in front, no obstacle and no ball.
Well, I never thought of it that way, but that sure makes sense!! Something to focus on. Good news is tonight’s session was 80% with some very deep/nice hits!! 🙂 I think he is working this out. He’s very thoughtful!
Sounds great, I’m sure he will get it in no time!
Hi Silvia,
Here is session II of running on the carpet. Well its actually a rather large plastic sheet.
Thanks.
Better, despite still somewhat airy… can’t find your running on flat video to compare, but I don’t think he is always so airy? And, are you sure plastic is not too slippery? Also, maybe you could try with a longer piece as you got many of one-hit tries. Two hits would give you more to jackpot. It got better by the end, but try to do at least 5 more carpet sessions and see if he gets less airy.
This is the second session on the plank with me in running, the dog is very airy, I tried to click only when he was less in the air and touched the contact area
I did some work sessions, as you can see from this video, I think the dog is airy at the last hit.
At first I worked with two straight tunnels at a distance of 5 meters from the plank, then I tried to bring near the second tunnel to the plank to see if get a better movement, but I think I got a little slowing down. Then I tried to turn back completely and I throw the ball without running and without the final tunnel.
httpv://
in this latest video, the plank has been raised, I tried to reward the contact with the back foot.
how can I proceed with the work?
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Huh, that first video was sure very airy, but I see he is getting much better now, so I would keep working like this, he is running well here. I would like to see some more deep hits to jackpot though so you can help some with the set up: with him, you want to promote jumping an apex as the deeper he hits the ramp first time, the deeper in the contact he is. You could try setting an up ramp (in a form of mini A-frame) -- that might give you flying the apex more and hitting deeper.
This is the work of today, I tried to put a small table raised before plank, to see if it helped to increase the jump apex ..
The times he touched the contact area with 2 hits is increased significantly, it is deep enough?
I would have had to raise more the plank?
I have to change my positions or the positions of obstacles? .. I have to stop running or remove the end tunnel?
You can keep the tunnel and keep running. I would keep this set up for a while and work towards the best hits, like those you are getting at the end of a session. After a couple of successful sessions with hits like that mostly, you can raise the table some. Great job!
Hi, The one hind leg thing is kinda a Cooper thing… when he goes down stairs he starts out normal then 1/2 way down he lifts one of his hind legs for a couple stairs and then finishes them normally. He’s done it his whole life, he’s 3 now. I’ve had him xrayed, chiropractored, acupunctured, massaged and there is NO physical reason why he does it. The X-rays where of his back, hips, legs, shoulders, everything and there is nothing physically wrong with him. It’s really just something he does and again he’s always done it. At this point everyone tells me to stop staring at my dog when he goes down stairs so it’s not surprising to me that he does it doing agility. Truly I have checked everything and there is nothing “wrong” physically with him and he gets a lot of hiking exercise and is in great shape it’s just who he is. Funny that another dog is doing it too! Will be running again tomorrow and will be interested to see in the videos if he continues with his one leg…
Interesting Pamela!! Spur does it when out on hikes some and very often on his DW down ramp, LOL! He was checked out thoroughly by and ortho specialist, but no x-rays. He is high rumpled and probably would be faster if he used his rear a little better, but it is now a well established habit. He does hind end tricks pretty well, I think.
Interesting. Lo did it on the stairs, but she did have a back problem (that was diagnosed later…), so when I saw La do it once I immediately put her on a break from all activities and slowly bring her back again -- and she never did it again 🙂 -- could be I panicked for nothing. Never saw it on a DW though… And I still find it funny he never did it in your previous videos and now on every try this time?
Actually, yes he does do it on nearly all the videos (I haven’t looked back at all of them, but all I watched he does it). If you look at that one I posted yesterday from back in February he does it there. I guess I just never noticed it before or never thought much of it. I know a very fast and very handy BC who does it even on the flat sometimes. He is a tidy and brilliant jumper. It’s like he just skips along sometimes with his hind.
Oh, sorry, that was a reply to Pamela, it’s Cooper who didn’t do it on videos she first posted, but does it on every try in her last video.
Yeah and it looks like Cooper only does it with his right hind. Spur does it equally, doesn’t matter which hind, LOL!!
Did you have his patellas checked?
Yes, Elise, he had a complete ortho exam by the surgeon who repaired my MinPin’s patellas. He said all his joints were strong and felt great.
Do you know Delaney Ratner’s Kelso? He does it often just running around and that dog is sound and handy!!! I bet Kelso does it on his DW down ramp, too. I think I am in class with her tonight and I’ll film his DW if we are doing it and check it out in slo-mo.
Gus was doing well on the thin, plywood plank. So I moved him to a perfectly flat, full length (US), dog walk. My contacts are painted for USDAA -- so the smallest contact zone of any US venue.
Our first several sessions were VERY leapy. So much so that he was getting discouraged (as was I) since there was nothing that was good enough to be rewarded. I thought it might be the slight elevation of the dog walk since it’s on an aluminum frame. So I bought some cement pavers to raise the middle section just a bit. Enough so that the ends are a bit more buried in the grass.
This seems to have helped. The sessions that followed started to get to about 50% success. I’m starting him from the very end of the first board, since sending him through the tunnel also contributes to him leaping over the end. My plan is to gradually move him back off the dog walk planks and eventually build back up to sending him through the tunnel. I just don’t want to get him going so fast that he fails every single repeat.
This is our fourth session with the middle plank raised just a bit. It is much better than what I’ve been seeing lately. One trouble that I’m having is that he is SO fast, it can be hard to judge how he’s doing. Though the really good ones are pretty easy to see. So, after this session, I think my plan is to stay here and start to be more selective in what I reward. (In this video session, I rewarded all of them -- though I only gave one treat for six, since I knew it was kind of questionable.)
Any other suggestions?
(I’m way behind with my dog, Pippin. I may need to put her on hold for this session and try again in another session.)
Here’s our second session of the day. Lower success rate due to my bad throws, but his good ones are pretty darn good, I think.
Oh, yes, that definitely looks much better! I actually prefer to have some big leaps and some really good ones over all somewhat airy. First try was perfect, I hope you did a big party for that one and we can see more of that!
Hm… Not perfect, he is always airy when taking the last stride… If you think it’s improving, you can do a couple of more sessions like this, but I would go back to plywood, then start to raise it and at one point put the plywood on the DW and then work from there.
Hi Silvia and Classmates,
Here’s Zap’s DW for today. Not many reps but I was happy with the ones she did. The setup was a jump to a tunnel to the DW to a low jump after the DW.
Is the ideal striding 2 separated back feet in the lower 2/3’s of the contact zone? Ideally where should one be giving the cue for the obstacle after the DW? Thank you for your suggestions.
Yeap, 3 would be about the perfect hit as you got first front foot and then two split hind feet deep in -- not sure why you didn’t jackpot 3? I cue the next obstacle somewhere in the middle of DW with my BCs and at the beginning of down ramp with PyrSheps.
Hi Silvia and Classmates,
I didn’t jackpot 3 on the last video because I’m still training my eye. I’m working on moving and being able to see how and where the feet hit.
Had an outdoor show this past weekend. DW went into a corner where there were people and dogs standing near by. I drove all the way into the corner but that didn’t work. The leap was so obvious from mid ramp it would have taken a blind person not to see it. I elected to leave the ring. Not sure if that was the right thing to do. What do you do when your dog leaps in a show? Had some computer problems so here’s the latest 4. Thank you for your suggestions
Cool, that sure looks great, you’re getting many jackpottable hits now and she sure is adjusting her stride to get in: sometimes even too much actually, she is really making it hard for herself… Is it normal to not have a supporting leg in the middle of the ramps? -- We always have those, so this looks really bouncy to me, maybe it would be easier for her if you fixed it better? Going into the corner can be a problem yes, they’e too smart to run in full extension into nothing even when you run there… I think we need to prepare her for that more gradually, in training first, by putting that jump more&more to the side. It’s no problem if you continue after the leap in a trial as running as such is reinforcing and they will run once they are ready for such situations too. The beauty of running contacts is that they just get better&better with more experience. Bu leaped many at the beginning as she was not confident in new environments, ran slower and her striding was off and I never stopped her for it as I knew it’s a confidence thing: and the contacts just got better&better…
Thanks Silvia. I haven’t seen a support in the middle of the ramp for a long time. I’ll but something under the center to give it more stability.
Will continue to move the jump after the DW more to the side and see if I can get her to keep running to the end.
Big thanks for what to do in a trial. Would mark a leap or just keep going?
I mark the good ones and ignore the bad ones 🙂 Move the jump to the side slowly, to not produce too many misses. I like the support in the middle, it’s nicer to their joints if the board is not bouncing under their feet.
Hi Silvia and Classmates,
I put a support under the DW down ramp. Your comment also made me check the ramp bolts. They were all loose.
In this video I was slowly moving the jump after the DW off center line. I think that is why she leaped the second to the last DW.
In this video I put a piece of tape on the side of the DW to mark 36″. I can brace this ramp if you think it is still too bouncy.
It isn’t on the video but I did a couple of jump/tunnel/DW/wrap jump/DW/tunnel/ jump exercises. They weren’t perfect but were decent.
Should I just continue to work the jump after the DW so it is gradually more and more off line? I’ve been keeping the jump low. How far out do you have the jump from the end of the DW? Am I looking for Zap to turn on the flat after the DW, or to shorten her stride in anticipation of the turn? How do I let her know a turn is coming?
Thanks for your help.
Forgot to add the last video.
Cool, but yes, this ramp does need a support, it’s too bouncy!
For now, only work on soft turns that don’t require collection on a DW. For those turns, I just handle the DW normally, with a “go, go” and tell the direction after they hit the contact. We’ll get to real turns that require collection on a DW already a little later, I tell them about those turns on a horizontal plank, but teach them separately, we’ll address that later. But you can already now try going into nothing: no jump ahead or, another difficulty is when there are many jumps around. But don’t make it too difficult too fast, on a second video she is somewhat higher and has hind feet closer as I would like to. But I like her separation in 6, so I would actually jackpot that, especially as the jump off line seems hard for her. I like that plank with the middle support much better, it looks good to me now.
Hi Silvia and Classmates,
Zap’s latest videos. I braced the other ramp on the DW as you suggested. We have started to work a jump after the DW that is slightly off the mid line from the end of the DW.
and her lesson2 tricks: the hardest part for the container was Zap would step on the side of it causing it to flip up and hit her. Needless to say she then didn’t want to put her feet in it. I ended up steadying it for her until her weight could hold it. Is there a better way to deal with this?
My plan is to continue to work the gentle curve after the DW so the jump is further off the mid line. Will work into nothing after working the curve. Do you agree or have other suggestions?
Thanks
Yeap, sounds like a good plan. Add difficulties slowly enough to keep her successful rate high and a criteria clear, I wouldn’t reward 1 and 2 of the second video. Great job with tricks, you can of course hold the container so that it doesn’t tip. Keep adding distance to back.
Hi Silvia and Classmates,
Spec’s second time on a full low DW. Didn’t bother to video his first time due to the learning curve. He still occasionally comes off the plank at the contact zone. I’m hoping that will improve with time and as the plank is raised. Would like to get rid of the x-pens. Should I wait until his success rate is higher before I start changing his starting point? Again, thanks for your suggestions.
Yes, definitely reward front feet hits (like 12) too, but try not to jackpot front feet. But I would jackpot 11 as you got one hind leg in too. I would go for high successful rate first and then start to challenge him some more. And yes, staying on the board will get easier with more experience and height, so I wouldn’t worry about it and keep the x-pens for now.
thanks. Will do.
Hi Silvia and Classmates,
I’m becoming discouraged with Spec. He is more than willing to run to a stationary toy, but the reward rate is low. Just when I think he’s getting it he’ll have more misses than I would like in a row. After 2 misses I vary something to help him be right but that doesn’t always work. computer problems so couldn’t post for awhile.
Is he doing 4 strides? I found it strange he is not in when he hits the down ramp with hind feet first, that should take him far enough with the last stride… Maybe try a thrown toy again, that might give you more extension? If he is still not deep enough, you can try to get one stride more by sending him on DW from difficult approaches, just to see if that would give you a better successful rate… And yes, of course reward those one front or one hind leg hits too, at least for now.
Thanks. I’ll video the entire DW in our next session, and try some different approaches. I’ve been mixing up throwing a toy and stationary toy. Will go back to throwing to see what happens.
Hi Silvia and Classmates,
Spec’s video from the 27th. Still not the reward rate I would like.
Here he is on the full DW so you can see his striding.
Suggestions?
Well, I think the trend is good. You’re definitely getting more jackpotable hits, so I would just keep working like this. The good thing is that he is not leaping, but has some problems getting all the way down. He seems to be trying for 4 strides and is somewhat high with 4 strides, but I think it will come with more experience. Try to vary some slow approaches (a stay right in front or a difficult entry) that will give you 5 strides with speedy approaches (tunnel) to see if he can get in with 4 too: he did on 10 of the second video -- that’s what you’re going for, only with even more extension to get even deeper. But that’s a good start!
Hi Silvia,
Could you give me a couple examples of ‘difficult approaches’? Do you mean the angle of the tunnel to the DW, or an offset jump before the DW etc. Thanks.
I actually mean sending him on from the other end of a DW or from the middle, so that he really comes on with not much speed (because ugly approach with speed can end bad…). To prevent climbing from the side, you can use a pole or even a wing so that he is still taking it from straight, but after going around a pole/wing, so that he doesn’t have much speed.
Hi Silvia,
Here is our most recent training session from the 17th. I had worked several sessions at a slightly lower height and this is the first at this height. I am still having a problem with my arm so throwing a ball isn’t good for it and also lifting equipment isn’t good either. Luckily where I was training I didn’t have to move the plank very far or even lift it completely (there is a teeter board underneath the wider boards). At home it is worse because I need to put everything away after every session. I am trying to make a plank out of pieces that are easier to lift but I haven’t got a stable setup yet and the plank bends too much. It is getting too dark to go and train at other locations outside after work. I am hoping to get a more stable setup before it starts snowing!
For most of these tries I have placed a toy after a jump that is about 6 paces from the end of the plank. There were a couple where I tried throwing a ball. The first few were not very good and I had Nessa take a break while I tried stuff with Taari. Nessa came back and was better. On some of the tries after playing tug a bit I had her do a tunnel as a further reward. I think that helped with her speed the next time.
I am suspecting that when Nessa slows down a bit she can get more air and/or take a longer stride. She looks like she might be a bit airy in the middle of the last one (25).
At the beginning I switched which side I was on as I think that Nessa has gotten used to me being on the far side and some of the tries she wasn’t staying on the plank. It was also better for the camera that I wasn’t in the way ;).
Teresa and Nessa
Looks great to me! 25 and maybe also 17 might look somewhat airy in the middle, but it actually looks to me as she is trying to extend to get nicely in, so I would definitely be jackpotting that, her hits are beautiful. I think she is starting to understand this game and you should be able to raise it pretty quickly now. I hope your hand cooperates!
Thanks Silvia for your comments. It is so good to hear that Nessa is or was doing so well. I tried a setup in my backyard because I don’t have much access to the place I was using before. I also wanted to try to have horizontal plank before the down ramp. To say it didn’t work is probably an understatement. I tried to make it stable but obviously it wasn’t very good. I got no separation of her hind feet on some tries and she didn’t want to stay on the plank. 🙁
I was able to get back to the place I have been training at and tried putting the teeter plank on a low table. I taped the second session and even though I am not happy with it I wanted to show it to you to see if I should be changing the setup. Several things affected Nessa’s speed. There was a herding clinic going on and sheep, dogs and people were in the field nearby. This was an added distraction as they were often near the fence. I stopped working her when they were that close because I didn’t want to disturb them. This also affected my energy level -- I wasn’t trying to get her really excited because I didn’t want her barking. To top it all off she is in season too. The plank is narrower too.
My main concern is if the table works or does it alter her stride in a bad way. It is probably hard to tell because she doesn’t have the speed she should have. I had some hits near the end of the plank with her back feet but more with her front feet. I was rewarding slow tries because she wasn’t always staying on the board so I wanted to reward her for staying on the board.
I could try her on a low dog walk but the lowest height I think that I can lower the dogwalk to is 24″ at this place.
Moving the planks is difficult because of my injury to my arm. I am not sure that I can make a mini A-frame setup.
Should I keep trying the setup I have or do something different? How quickly should I be raising the plank?
Teresa and Nessa
Well, a little slower is still better as airy! She is running o.k., but more speed would of course be even better -- but it might indeed make her go for one hit on the plank only as she lands so far on the plank for the first time… You will see, if that happens, then low DW would definitely be better. You could maybe use tables instead of legs to make it even lower? You can raise the plank some after 3 successful sessions in a row on one height.