Great job so far everybody! But again, please see as many videos of others as possible and read my comments to others too - the more you read and the more videos you watch, the easier it will be to understand what you're going for and see it in real speed too.
Anyway, here is your new list:
1. gradually make that plank/set-up higher&higher, still jackpotting the best hits, but make a criteria for a jackpot somewhat more strict and at this point also stop clicking misses and almost-misses, even if the dog is striding equally. Jackpot really good hits only. It's no problem if the dog still gets the toy on every try, just take it immediately when he comes back. When it's good, praise and tug and when it's especially good, be especially excited and play especially enthusiastically 🙂 And yes, dogs are smart enough to know the difference.
2. as the dog is probably already searching for the plank better, slowly start throwing sooner&sooner. Don't rush it, but you eventually want to throw that soon that the dog is technically running to a static toy. But again, you don't want to get there sooner as in 3 weeks as it's only then that we'll start using a static toy - you do want to throw it for those 3 weeks more! It's better to throw somewhat longer if necessary - usually not an issue with BCs, but with my PyrShep puppy, I needed to throw VERY long to keep the speed and forward focus - if any of that gets weaker when you start throwing sooner, go back to whatever gives you back the speed and forward focus, we can deal with the rest later!
3. as you are still throwing a toy, your movement and position probably won't affect the dog's performance - but just to be sure, do try to run with the dog here and there, just to check if that's correct. If it does affect your dog's performance, add movement gradually, by first walking slowly along, then walking faster, running slowly etc. You don't need to do it on every try, especially not if it doesn't affect the performance, but do try it here and there.
4. another difficulty we can slowly start introducing now is changing starting position of your dog. If you use a low DW, you can use different approaches instead. Don't use the best spot all the time anymore, but vary it a little bit. If it makes their hits too bad, go back to the good starting position. But bad hit here and there is good, that's how they learn the difference between what gets rewarded and what doesn't.
5. new trick: shape a dog to go with all 4 feet in a box that is ideally as long as he is. Then gradually use smaller&smaller objects, your goal is the dog is standing with 4 feet in a small bowl. Good for balance and rear legs awareness! Also, teach backing up with you standing still, by throwing a reward for them first for one step back, then two and then add more&more distance. Great for rear legs awareness and coordination!
Hi Silvia
Here are my first attempts at teaching a tight turn off the plank. I am worried about her right turns. Please let me know if I should be. You may have noticed by now that I worry easily.
Within this video there is a small joke. Unfortunately I misspelled your name in the joke. So sorry. also it lengthens the video a bit. So Sorry, you certainly look at enough video already.
Thanks again!
Heidi
Here is the Beatrice starts turn training video
Great job with the stick! 🙂 The turns, hm, some are good and some aren’t and you’re clicking them all… From some strange reason, I find it hard to click the turns too, so I click some accidently, but you seem to be equally rewarding them all even though she is missing (or almost missing) the whole contact in some and does it nicely with front feet too in others… -- you need to make a big difference between the two! Try to review the videos in slow motion, it makes it easier to click correctly then.
yes, I was really surprised when I saw this video how many she was missing or almost missing. I think I was so used to clicking turns around a stick that my brain was defaulting to that! Next time out I will actually look at what she is doing on the board. It should be easier now that I have the whole stick thing worked out.
Yeap, you must look and click for front feet in the contact, not for wrapping the pole.
That is the cutest profile pic I have ever seen:-)
Hi Silvia:
Just sharing some success here! This is Tai’s second session at full height on my new rubber-surfaced dogwalk. I’m very pleased because he seems to be showing great understanding of his job. Didn’t like rep 6 or 7 much but others were great! If this trend continues, I’ll start adding some challenges. And before long, I can start the turn training -- I’ve already worked on the foundation bits. Agree?
Anne & Tai
Anne these look GREAT!!! Well done! To my untrained eye, he really looks to be adjusting his stride to make sure he’s in! Awesome rear feet hits!!
Great!!! Those were really nice hits and really impressive adjustments! What a good boy! Looks to me like he will be able to handle challenges easily, so yes, definitely bring them on! You can start the turns too yes, sure. Great job!
Silvia: Glad you agree! And yes, he is a GOOD BOY!
Anne & Tai
Wow Anne, that looks great. Wonderful job.
Hello Sylvia
In getting ready to add a flat plank, I took Mary’s suggestion and had 8′ long plywood cut in 3rds to get three 8′ (16 in wide) lengths. Plywood doesn’t come in 12′ lengths (8′ is the max). So I now have 3 planks 8′ long 16″ wide.
My question is, once dog is ready to run a flat plank, should I figure out how to extend the 8′ plywood lengths so they are each 12′ long or run the dog on 8′ planks? If running 8′ planks, would I adjust the approach to accommodate the missing 4′ stride by lengthening the approach with grass or carpet? Making the approach 19′ instead of 15′? What is best?
You can start with two planks side by side and then go to two planks end to end to get 16′, I’m just not sure how to raise it then…
Here’s my latest video:
The inside session I tried him on my left. Throwing with my left hand worked better on that side which i’m not great at. All misses were my bad throwing. In good news that leaves my right hand free to click and my timing is much better!
Outside session -- i’m trying more motion and trying to throw earlier.
I think the best one is 2.7 -- i got a nice wide spaced 2 rear foot hit.
I’m jackpotting any 2 foot hits. I’ve had him throwing some really low 1 foot hits and I’m wondering if i should reward those? His foot is squarely on the plank but just really low. I think you said not to reward the super high hits but I’m not clear about the low hits which are really hard for me to see as well -- i often see them as leaps.
Beautiful! I agree with what you rewarded/jackpotted. He only leaps when he gets too deep on a plank with the first stride and then has no room for another, so I think you will need a new set up soon. Maybe switch to a single plank now and then go to a low DW or 2/3 of DW. And yes, one very low foot is not ideal because many judges will see them as leaps too 🙂
Silvia,
Today I tried using a single plank with the same outdoor setup as before. We had a LOT of misses and leaps. I’m not even sure how to classify most of them. He would start his first hit on the plank and then come off for his 2nd hit (most of those would have been “in” if he stayed on the plank). I’m wondering if I should do a couple more sessions like this and see if he gets used to the narrower surface or do something else to help him? It seems to me that he just can’t hold onto the narrow plank.
Any suggestions? thanks!
Yes, I guess he just needs time to get used to that narrow plank. To help him, one option would be somewhat wider plank (something in between), but I’m guessing you don’t have that… So you can just keep trying on that set up -- or maybe jumping on a table first would make it easier then to stay on? Or some kind of a chute (x-pens or jump wings) at the side?
Here’s our latest work:
I jackpotted 2,3,5,6,8. He is giving great rear leg separation here!
I still am using a double wide down ramp (12′), single wide 8′ up ramp. I also had good success with a similar setup indoors though the table was higher, the up ramp 12′ and coming from a tunnel.
The biggest thing I have changed is the toy. I went from using the favorite orange rubber chuckit ball to both a tennis ball on a rope and the hollee roller ball with tennis ball inside. I know that you wanted us to throw earlier so the toy will be more static. However, with the chuckit ball it was always rolling no matter how early my throw. So these toys are better however I clearly (at least to me) don’t get as much drive from Punk. He still likes these toys but isn’t crazy for them. I think he’s more thoughtful and I actually find it easier to jackpot as he will play tug and take food whereas he won’t do those things with the favorite chuckit ball. I noticed that I need to run more with him to really get him running now (he does like the blue hollee thing better then the ball on rope so i will use that -- used in 5-8 in the video).
Silvia, do you think it’s worth losing a bit of the drive to switch toys so it’ll be easier to fade? I think my motion now is more of an issue too as before he didn’t even notice I existed since he was fixated on his ball.
Next, I plan on using the single wide down ramp.
Great!!! Definitely time to try a single plank now and if that goes well, transition to a low DW. He looks pretty fast with this ball too, but I would probably vary some and still use a chuckit here and there to check if he can do it with full speed too.
Here’s the 4 in the box & back up video (yes, in the back up video he looks & is FILTHY 😉 -- it’s been raining here):
Also, Punk has slowly been getting better running on the single planks. He is getting about 60% reliably as reward or jackpot with most of the remaining 40% misses rather then leaps. Today I tried him on a low DW -- probably a bit higher then my current setup that we’ve been on all week. Started from a tunnel but that resulted in a bunch of misses so I back chained from the middle plank which went really well. I wasn’t able to get him to start from in front of the DW but almost.
Great, he is too cute with his tricks, love his activity level! Almost there with the small bowl and a really nice back, keep adding the distance! I’m sure he will master the low DW soon too!
Silvia: THIS is what you and I (and Anne with Tai) were discussing recently, yes? A big long strided dog, on only a 12 foot long plank, has little room to fit a full stride in comfortably if they land any further on the plank with front feet beyond the very beginning? So then, they miss… So going to a longer set up earlier is better…I THINK I’ve GOT it!!
Exactly. They either miss or, if you keep working on it, they learn to shorten a stride to fit it in and that gives you nice front feet hits that people like to jackpot -- but shortening a stride often produces overreaching with hind feet and you are as a consequence jackpotting something you don’t really want -- you can also see my discussion with Fanny, she had the same problem when entering the class, but the problem is pretty much solved by now, so look at her earlier videos.
Silvia,
I was wondering in regards to dogs with a 2 strided down ramp on the last DW plank….
In regards to the first stride on the down plank… do you prefer that the dog hits first with the back feet on the front feet ?
Does it matter ?
Thanks,
Tara
Not sure if I know what you mean by 2 strides down ramp… Probably what I would call 2 hits down ramp, like Le does in my video I posted to lesson 1? With this type of striding, the dog flies the apex and then does another stride on DW ramp -- works great with shorter-striding dogs. So you get front-hind-front-hind feet on down ramp. Longer-striding dogs, especially on US length DW, don’t have room to do that and can only do one and a half hits, meaning hitting down ramp with front-hind-front feet OR hind-front-hind feet. -- The last one being better as that way, they don’t fly an apex and can do a fully extended next stride. If they start the down ramp with front feet, long-strided dog is already so low on a down ramp that it’s very hard for him to fit in front feet again -- see my discussion with Anne Anderle on this topic.
Yes, ditto, just catching up, as I was a show all weekend, and now just saw Grace’s video…
Yesterday she had great success on my old set up so I raised it 6″ and added the table. I did a few reps and she was great.
Today not 1 jackpot. I tried changing the spacing of the wrap pole, but it did not make a difference.
Unfortunately, I do not have an adjustable ht dog walk to use. Any suggestions for future setups would be greatly appreciated. The one in the video is using 2 dw ramps on a crate with a 16″ table. Not sure I want her jumping up on anything higher at this point. What do you think?
She is just turning 9 months.
Yeap, that was very leapy, she chose to leap even when she had plenty of space for another stride. Maybe because the plank is so bouncy? You should support it some in the middle, I think that would help some. Still, on many tries she gets so far on a plank with front feet that it’s indeed hard to add another stride. I think you would get much higher successful rate if you used two tables. If you don’t have two, an up ramp might help too. If you have a third plank, an up ramp would actually be a good idea anyway as that way, she doesn’t need to jump on it anymore AND she will get used to running on a single plank going up first what would be a good preparation for your next set up when you use single planks, either leading to a table and off OR putting a horizontal DW plank on a table and with that creating a low DW even if your DW’s legs can’t be lowered -- but I guess they can be replaced with something lower?
Hi Silvia and Mary Ann -- as Mary Ann is one of my BEST friends 🙂 I wanted to ask a question/make suggestion? In watching this video… Silvia is Mary Ann also throwing too early? Whenever I throw too early, I notice Thrill goes into ‘pounce’ leaping mode… I didn’t know if that might be contributing in this session? Curious minds want to know, LOL!
Well, definitely something to try, despite I think that’s about when I would throw too. However, I always use a ball or a ring or something that rolls well as that puts them more in a chasing mode. Dead toy often puts them in pouncy mode yes. So maybe even for Thrill, using a toy that rolls would be a good idea as it would make him less dependant on your timing?
You are probably right… however, I probably didn’t convey at how BAD I was at actually a real ball… that’s why I had to use a chuck-it, and then I discovered I could throw the Wubba with some degree of accuracy. I’m wondering now if the Chuck it made Thrill so dependent on my throwing, because when I used the chuck it, I was quite accurate, plus, I was capable of throwing it REALLY far.. probably ‘too’ far… then when I switched, all the human failings of not throwing perfectly came into play?? I don’t know.. but I do know I really am awful at throwing a ball… sigh..
I would try to get rid of throwing with Thrill as soon as possible anyway, knowing it affects him that much. Just use the tunnel after instead.
I went back to a plank on the ground and she seemed to figure it out the running again.
this is a set up with an up ramp -- 6ft across to the down plank
jack pot -reps 2,3,4 (bad throw on my part),7, 8,9.
I haven’t figured how to type in my comments on the video yet
Hm, I still don’t like it… Her head is up and she is very airy even on tries when she is hitting it… Make sure you throw far and low. Also, now she jumps so deep on the down ramp that then she just leaps off… -- Despite she leaps off even when she could still do another stride, so I’m not sure if a different set up will solve the problem, but we can try that first: try using just one table instead of two to see if that changes her approach to the plank, makes her run more equally and gives you more things to jackpot. If not, you need to go down again and then raise it slower, paying extra attention to her airy tendencies.
finally no rain or technical difficulties
I also found a ball that doesn’t bounce too much- see what you think
kept the same set up
I jackpotted all but #8 although it was a harder approach and she lost her footing getting on the up plank
Wow, that’s MUCH better as in the last video!!! Very nice running, so you can get more selective with rewards! I would jackpot 3, 7, 9, 10, reward 2, 5, 6, 11 and not reward 1, 4 and 8 -- that’s a good ration of jackpotable-rewardable-not-rewardable hits you’re getting now, so I would keep this set up for a while and work on other variables first (different handler position, different starting points, throwing earlier etc.), then add some height again.
have to work on her backing up- when I looked at the video -- she is hopping some
Yeap, some hopping… -- but really nice distance! Try to click when she is walking. Great 4in, you can try something even smaller now.
Hi, I didn’t realize you couldn’t see the whole plank until after I downloaded this video, sorry. But he went 10 for 10 with perfect hits!!! What a difference throwing the ball sooner made, not once did he look back at me. The double plank is set at 17″ and I send him out around a jump and then to the planks. What I love is that it seems like in each run he’s hitting exactly in the same spots with the same foot placement for the whole session with good rear leg separation. Enjoy your day!
Cool! Of course, this set up helps him as it makes him land close to the beginning of the plank and then he can easily fit another full stride in. I would do some more successful sessions on this set-up, but maybe with a single plank now to get him used to it and then either go to low DW or two tables set up. It will give him more striding options and probably lower his successful rate for awhile, but it’s just a learning process.
Hi Silvia and classmates,
Here are the first 2 sessions on the plank. In the 2th session I raised the plank 2 cm.
I’m not quite sure what happens, I threw the ball a bit earlier, it looks likes he is trying to reach more forward or makes his last stride bigger ??
Do it look right to you?
Also his front or rear feet are hitting the ground just after the plank, this can be caused due the fact the plank is shorter than the carpet. The carpet was 3.80m but the plank is 3.65m this is because my dw is also 3.65 m long. It that a big problem, is my dw to short?? If so I need to change my dw 🙁 we just painted it and put rubber on top of it . . . but if it’s really necessary of course I will take care of it.
Before I go on I will wait for your comment, because maybe I have to change some things.
I did another session today but sadly I get an error when I try cut it with moviemaker.
Thanks again!
First session looks good to me, he is still running and mostly hitting it nicey, I would jackpot even more as you did (1.17 for example, that was a great hit and 1.10 was nice too!). Second session, he is indeed doing some funny striding, trying to reach with front foot unnaturally far. Try to focus on jackpotting hind feet and still rewarding front if she is touching it nicely, but not an accidental one foot touches at the very end. Keep taping it and watch out for the trend. If you regularly see such short DWs, then it’s of course o.k. to train on it. We never see so short DWs, ours are mostly 3.9 or more and it makes 3.8 (as Smart has and we usually see it on WC and EO) easy. Going from shorter to longer is more difficult, but of course possible, just pay even more attention to getting really deep, safe hits.
Hi Silvia,
I did some research, but 90% of the DW in Holland are 365. So for now that’s oke I don’t think we are going to a WC 😉 But for my new dog, he/she isn’t born yet 😉 I will make the DW a bit longer.
So what I did today, cut of a piece of the carpet so it was 365 put it on top of the double downramp of the DW. It wend really well!!! Me so happy. He is a bit airy, but I think that’s because he is jumping on the downramp a little bit too high. The last try was without the carpet, and that one also was awesome!!
I hope you can see it, it was already dark outside, the lights for training are perfect but for filming . . . What do you recommend to do next?? Thanks again!
Time to raise it some!
Hi, I changed over to the the single board with the same height (17″) as yesterday and it made a huge difference. He had a hard time staying on the board, and the board wasn’t as stable as yesterday so I have to work on that it was a bit wobbly. Should I do anything to help him stay on or just let him figure it out by doing more reps for a couple days?
Definitely stabilize it better, it’s clear he is uncomfortable on it and even on the nice tries, he doesn’t put the second hind leg down, I think it’s uncomfortable. You can help him to stay on the board with some x-pens or jump wings, but nothing will help if you don’t fix it better.
Hi,
this week our camera “died” 🙂 so we have only taped one day and only a few tries.
The first days we raised the plank without an up ramp, but Blue was feeling uncormfortable and missed the plank very often.
At the end of the week Helmut made an up plank. Our first tries on it (taped) were not the best ones, but one day later he did great (no video).
Here is our short video of this week (will try to get another camera this week):
As our last tries were really good, we will raise the plank about 15 cm again (2 tires).
O.k., good luck with your camera! 🙂 If he is doing good, you can of course raise it some more, just try to fix the planks better, especially the horizontal plank looks very wobbly. It can make them leap on a long run, so you definitely want a more stable set up.
Hi,
finally our camera is ok now 🙂
From Monday to Wednesday we did our sessions without the camera.
Blue did good and I hope I did reward correct (couldn´t check on video).
On Friday we taped the session.
We tried to throw the ball earlier in some tries, on the beginning he did bad, when the ball flew earlier, but it was getting better and better.
We also tried to place the ball after the plank, but then he still has not enough speed 🙁
This was our Friday´s session:
We will post another video later -- with the tries with the static ball.
Looks great! No leaps and many great hits! Is he still jumping on or he has an up ramp? If he has an up ramp, you start trying different approaches to it etc. If throwing early makes things worse, try to throw earlier VERY gradually: every next time A LITTLE bit earlier.
He has an up ramp! (no need to jump on).
Ok, then we will start with different approaches -- at the moment he is coming out of a tunnel which is in a straight line to the up ramp.
We will also try to throw earlier more gradually, I hope it will be better then. Today he never had a Jackpot when I was throwing earlier 🙁
I really hope he knows what he is doing on the plank 🙂 and not only running after the ball.
(on Sunday we did about 3 or 4 tries with a static toy and it was terrible…I was curious what he will do, that´s the reason why I tried it, but I will not do that now for a while I think 🙂 )
Hm, very strange… Maybe you can try the opposite technique: have him run the plank in anticipation of a toy, maybe even pretend you threw -- but then only throw after the click. That one is a little risky though as you can get checking back on a contact… -- only works with dogs who will run far and fast in anticipation of a ball even when it’s not thrown… Another tactic would be to work on his drive for tunnels so that you could use a tunnel instead of a throw ball for getting him to pull forward…