We're starting with real sequences today, you'll get a new sequence every time and we'll always be running them in parts, starting with a small part and then adding more&more obstacles, just as you can see in the video - reward where I rewarded and then start from 1 again, meaning that you'll always be doing the whole sequence only on a 4th try or so. Whole sequences will be pretty long, to get the flow, but do NOT run a whole sequence again and again - you can run little parts several times, but the whole sequence only once or twice. Always run it without the dog first and only when you really know it, try with the dog. After every try, PLAY, give a dog a break to rehearse the next sequence on your own and only then try again.
Don't keep running the same sequence for 2 weeks!!! You can either think of another sequence on your own or keep working on multi-wraps and sends (from lesson 1 and 2). Also, don't forget to keep working on weaves and contacts, we'll get back to that later!
And Bi on the same sequence to show how things should look like on a low and then higher height:
1. introducing straight lines: after all the cik&cap work, it's time to introduce some straight lines and extension jumping too. Set a straight line of 2 or 3 jumps between two tunnels (or simply use one if you don't have two), start with some cik/cap to tunnel, cik/cap to tunnel, then straight over the first jump to cik/cap on a second jump back to tunnel, then two straight jumps to cik/cap on a third one, cik/cap again on a next jump etc. - just think of something, putting more and more straight jumps in between one and another cik/cap. See a video and again another example here:
2. sequencing: start with cik on 1, run in for a front cross between 2 and 3, ask for cap on 2 from the landing side, RUN for cik on 5 (extension jumping on 4), another cap on 6 and finishing with cik on 8, rewarding in the direction of 9.
3. bang the see-saw game: if you did the "closing drawers and doors" trick, then you're all ready for this new game. If you don't have a see-saw, you can use a small plank with something underneath so that it moves when the dog pushes it with front legs. If you have a see-saw, either lower it almost to the ground or support it so that one end is 10 to 15 cm (4 to 6 inches) off the ground and have them push it down with front feet - you can then raise it somewhat more off the ground. Do not promote 4 feet, 2 feet is better to teach them to push. Jackpot for most powerful pushes and eventually stop rewarding the gentle touches. Reward away from the see-saw, you want a push&go (I'm not doing very good job on that in the video, I forgot to bring better treats for that - a toy would actually be even better). ONLY work on this part (step 1 and 2) for next 2 weeks (no 4 feet yet!) - I included next steps in the video just to give you an idea what's the plan 🙂
I'll be answering your comments till Friday 29th. Then I'm leaving for EO and have the camp after that, so we'll be on break till 15th August so that everybody can catch up AND you can practice cik&cap some more. We're introducing straight lines too today, but if you only started with cik&cap when the class started, you still need to do quite some work on that anyway - especially exercises 1 of lesson 1 and 2! You can also keep adding height... So, plenty of work for everybody! The second week of this lesson will be from 15-21st August, with no video commenting in between. I like those breaks as they take some pressure off and I can always see a huge progress after the break!
Wraps and Turns
Great wraps!
Wraps and turns to table
Matilda and I are on our way driving back to California. We did some contact work in Connecticut before we left. I won’t have easy access to contact obstacles in CA. For this reason I did all 4 phases of the Teeter work, not just the first 2. I think this is helping her run to the end rather than pausing in the middle. Since she has a stop on the Teeter what should the command be? Teeter, bang it, touch? Later drop out the bang it?
Well, I would prefer to take some more time for this game, so you can still do some when you have an access to the teeter again. Her teeter performance is actually really nice already, but well -- there is always room for improvement 🙂 Pick up one word you want to use for a teeter, it doesn’t matter which one, but you probably really don’t want to say 4 words for one obstacle 🙂 The cik&caps and over, you are saying too late, you only say it as she is in the air already -- she can’t do anything about it anymore then. You need to say it as soon as she is finishing the jump before if you want it to help her any.
Yes, we’ll try to get more time on the Teeter game. Also, I’ll work on giving Matilda cues earlier. Thank you.
Liza
Hi Silvia,
Here Matilda and I are again working the Teeter and the bang it game. This is the used, home made, teeter my sister and I bought in CT. I wish I had one in CA, too. How are we doing? Any suggestions? How does the sequence in the first video look? She seems to be understanding the Cik and Cap, I think.
Looking forward to your comments.
Liza
Hey everyone! That was a long break, but we liked it 🙂
We had a few things happen during break. The biggest one was that I adopted a puppy, but then had to return it to the rescue. She was a sweet little puppy, but she had some severe health issues that the rescue didn’t tell me about. It was a really hard and sad desicion. Tibby didn’t get very much training while the puppy was around.
I also did some fun ‘training’ with Tibby and a dog my Mom was pet sitting. I put the video of the 2 of them at the end, if anyone wants to see it. They are pretty cute. Also, wow how fun to play with a border collie type dog. They are so eager to work…..weird I’m not use to that! 😛
So I think Tibby’s teeter bang is getting better. We do it a few times a day. Just go do it once or twice and then back inside.
I’m not really doing the sequences the way they are drawn out. I kind of made up my own thing of what I thought Tibby would do. Still trying to get Tibby to think agility is fun…….but I think she might be getting the hang of it.
I have been doing a TON of tunnel-reward-tunnel-reward. Tibby still thinks the tunnel is scary.
I think Tibby is slooooowly seeing that this is a fun game. I have a timer that I set and we play/train for only 3 mins. Then I go do something else. Then an hour or so later we go back and do it again. If Tibby’s not into it I just stop and we try again later. Also if I have something really yummy to eat and Tibby wants some I will take her out to do a tunnel or a jump or the teeter. She does it and gets a little taste and then we go back inside. I think it has helped to make it a part of every day life -- just like tricks!
Lucy and Tibby
Hi Catalina,
So sad to hear you had to bring the puppy back, but it was definitely a good decision of yours. They should have told you! Tibby really makes me laugh everytime. She is so funny! The way she bang the seesaw by here self when you didn’t watch.
She is getter much faster with the sequence! Most dogs adore tunnels and not so much jumps, but Tibby likes it the other way! 😀 (That’s why I found her just too funny!! 😉 )
I also enjoyed watching the other video. You should have clicked when the other dog touched her!! The other dog almost hugged her!! 😀 (Like Grace- Camilla’s girl- can do!) Cute how they like to tug together.
Keep it up Tibby!!
Catalina,
Will Tibby do a straight tunnel with speed and confidence? If not, I’d backtrack to there. Curved tunnels can be very scary. I’ve had the same issue on and off with Spur throughout this foundation class. At home or during a ring rental she really didn’t like tunnels whether they be curved or straight. Even seeing her brothers zip through them did nothing to encourage her. So, I worked on a short straight tunnel then slowly lengthened it. When she was zipping through it, I curved just one end, so the daylight still came through a bit. I worked entering from both the straight end and the curved end with her. Then finally I curved both ends. She will now dive into a tunnel whether it be curved or straight, but if i’m not following through the curve with her she may on occasion pull off.
Now, you may have tried all of this and I’m just blowing hot air, and if so forgive me.
BTW Tibby looks and acts so much like my TT Scout. They are great, if somewhat independent, little dogs.
Mary
Thanks guys! 🙂
When I saw Lucy do that to Tibby the first thing I thought of was Grace too! Lucy didn’t understand what the clicker was -- it was her first time seeing one, but she’s so smart I think she would pick it up pretty fast.
I have tried doing just a straight tunnel and Tibby was still nervous about it. It seems to be the entrance that scares her. Even if the tunnel is just a circle (all folded up) she is still slow at going into it. But I think she’s getting better!
We had a private lesson today and our instructor watched this video (a bunch of times -- uh oh!). She had some good points for ME to work on. I am really bad at handling -- I’m sure for some one that knows what they are doing it is painful to watch 😛
I have been trying to keep good eye contact on Tibby and not just run away from her, but I also need to watch which arm I’m using directing her to jump. *sigh* it all takes time 🙂
Recently, I had a friend bring her dog over to my house and I was showing her what Tibby can do -- jumps and tunnel. She said, “Huh, that’s interesting. Wouldn’t it be awesome if my dog could just do it all without training?!?” I was like, “Yeaaaah that would be awesome.” Then she tried to get her dog to go over the jumps and the dog was like “What do you WANT?!?”
I just said, “Well, it takes a long, long, long time.” 🙂
You can try fixing the tunnel really well, some dogs don’t like it if it moves when they enter it. And yes, there is still plenty of work on handling, but I think the most important thing right now is to make obstacles fun to Tibby and agility more about running. That step is actually a very easy one with most dogs, probably easier as you can imagine, but well, every dog is different -- and we learn the most with those who challenge us the most 🙂
Yes, that’s a great advice! I never had a dog afraid of tunnels in my classes before, but Tibby does seem to be extra cautions about unknown things -- also see-saw might take a while, so keep working on it slowly.
Yeap, she does seem to be getting faster and understanding the game more! And she is really too funny to watch! Keep working in her speed, I’m sure you two will get there!
So sorry to hear that the story with the puppy had to end that way… What did she have? Tibby sure seems to be very motivated and tugging really well with another dog around, so maybe the puppy idea is not bad at all! 🙂
This is our training from yesterday evening:
nr. 1 cik & cap and straight lines
nr. 2 sequencing
It was great to have a break for 2 weeks to catch up with things, but I must say I’m also really happy it starts again! 😀
Jonina & Jin
“Why did the bar fall down?”
I am going to guess as I watch your video--wait for Silvia’s reply--but my guess is that you had a blocking hand and arm out even though you were actually going for extension. My understanding is that we are just running in that situation with the dog taking the obstacles on the way and then signaling the turns and collection.
Nancy
Left hand is not a blocking arm, it’s a sending arm. It’s true I wouldn’t use it that much in this situation and would just run instead. But still, knocked bars can happen here and there, but I do leave those to their responsibility -- I mean, I won’t redo it when I’m in their space or too late with a directional, but in other cases (like arm up or down), I do expect them to make an effort and keep them up…
Thanks Silvia, that helps with my understanding as well. Glad I threw my guess out there….
Nancy
And you were probably right to some degree, that strong arm signal definitely didn’t help with keeping the bar up, but well, I prefer that dogs are not too sensitive about things like that and can keep the bars up even in situations like this.
2 was actually from the other side, but well, no problem 🙂 Her turns are really very nice, very nice style. You can now mix in some more straight lines too, to work some on extension and challenge her turns even more. I can’t see from that angle how and why she knocked that bar, but well, it happens… If you see it in time, you can stop and reset it immediately, to make her see it’s important to keep the bars up for the fun to continue.
I’m having problem with my video. Hope I can browse it soon… If I cannot, I hope you’ll accept to comment it later on.
Céline
Sure, no problem.
This is our straight line exercise. I see that we need more work on commitment. We also continue to strive for consistent speed. I have been experimenting with different rewards, different times of day and different circumstances with all of the exercises to try to see what gets Leia most excited. So far: morning, before a beach walk/swim and after a beach walk/swim is getting me some decent speed but, it’s the egg toy, luckily I got a smaller one that’s a little easier to run with 🙂 and having one of her border collie friends in the background that seems to really get her going.
This is a couple of recent sessions from our channel work. I’m trying to vary the entries as much as I can and close it little by little. Is there anything I should do differently?
And since I haven’t posted anything about contacts yet I thought I’d take the opportunity over the break to start again with RC’s. We haven’t done any running on the board in 2 months. I was in the first RC class but was really struggling to get enough repetitions out of Leia to actually train it. I’ve placed my thin/wide board under some carpet which makes it a longer surface for her to run on until I can get some longer boards. I see a variety of speeds in her running and some good running but also some leaping. What do you think, do we have enough running to work with? Is it okay to continue with this board and carpet combo? or should I wait until I get longer boards?
Thanks!
Mara
Hi Mara,
Loved your videos, as always! What’s up with the egg? Why is it better than a ball? Buddy couldn’t care less about a ball, maybe I should try this egg?! Did she play when you got her, or did you work on playing with you? I remember your video about improving play and giving the toy.
Cool, that egg definitely makes a difference!!! Maybe use it for agility only, to keep it special. She is showing really great speed for that egg, would be great if she runs like that all the time! Also, try to create some of the excitement you get with other dogs present and barking also when you are working with her alone. Definitely teach her to bark on cue and ask her to bark some before running -- makes them excited even if they aren’t 🙂 Also, did you ever try just stopping the session when she is slow and trying again later? -- Just to see if she runs faster next time.
No other problems, nice extension&collection, getting there with the weaves -- and she really seems to like those! Strange why she prefers weaves over carpet running, it’s the same concept… But yes, carpet running with the egg definitely looks great too, so yes, keep working like this. Maybe she will start seeing it the same way as she sees weaves, she doesn’t seem to mind many repetitions of weaves…
Yes, I will use the egg sparingly and only with agility. I would LOVE to get that speed from her all of the time! Definitely a goal for us. I will try to be more consistent about stopping whenever she is not running full out, I think it will help.
I was also thinking about how quickly she picked up the channel work but would always only do one or two runs on the board before quitting and I think it may have something to do with me not ripping the toy away and pushing her back with the channel. Looking back, I did a lot of that with running on the board (before you pointed out how much it was confusing her) and it may have been what was making her quit. I’ll try to treat the RC as much like the channel as possible and hopefully it will transfer over.
Its great to get your feedback and suggestions!
Mara
Jennifer,
that’s a good point about the quieter voice. Turid Rugaas addresses that in her book “On Taking Terms With Dogs: Calming Signals”. She obsered dogs in agility trials that got slower and slower as their handler got more animated. Turid’s comment was the dog was sending calming signals to the handler.
I need to remember that with Speed. He does better with less chatter.
Lois
I think it depends on a dog and what they’re used to. It can definitely be scary if you’re usually quiet and then start screaming 🙂 -- Or even more if you use a loud voice or yelling for talking to the dog when they do something wrong. I never use a loud voice for that, but I often play rough and loud with my dogs, so they’re used to it and they definitely react with more power if I speak to them more and with more power when running vs. running quiet or using a soft voice. So it’s really a question of what the dog is used to. The only time my dogs hear me yelling is when they do something absolutely fantastic 🙂
I think it’s worth a try for Mara and Leia, because she is also a rescue who was neglected -- like my dog -- so they didn’t have positive interaction and didn’t learn to play with humans, and every dog is different, some dogs use a play growl and some don’t etc 😉
It’s an interesting point to considerer. I don’t think Leia worries about my voice she is very vocal herself and likes to play rough. To me she seems like a very confident dog, it’s just been a challenge to convince her that working with me is more fun than doing things by herself. It’s also hard to get her to that level of excitement where she runs full speed without getting some nippy behavior. I started to encourage her to bark today before we were going to play with some jumps and a tunnel and she got a little too excited, jumped up and nipped at my arm. She goes from a good hyped up, to over aroused very quickly. I guess I’ll just have to keep experimenting to find the right balance.
Sure, I was not trying to imply she shouldn’t try. I was just trying to say that the general myth that one has to run silent and/or giving minimal verbal info, not repeating the cues etc. proved wrong many times in my experience when I finally talked silent handlers into giving some more energy -- and as a consequence their dogs all of the sudden gave more energy too.
oh, sorry, I guess my previous comment didn’t come across in the right way 😉 you’re right of course; I have just been so wrapped up in trying to get my dog motivated, it makes me a little nutty 😉
Yes, Lois, that’s a great book. every dog is different 😉
Thanks Jennifer! My guess about the egg is that it’s the herding type behavior that Leia uses to push the egg around that turns her on so much. It’s made from hard plastic so she can’t pick it up. Leia has always been playful but not exactly interested in playing with me. From the info the rescue gave me she was the last pup from a littler and when the people who had her could not sell her they left her outside on her own. When I got her she preferred to play by herself and if given the chance would take any toy and run off to play with it without me. Puppy class helped us a lot, all of the shaping has made playing with me more fun for her but it’s still a work in progress. I just continue to try different games and different toys. Maybe Buddy would like the egg? Can’t hurt to try…if you have a football or a rugby ball you could try it without having to buy something new. They have some of the same type of action and I’ve found Leia plays the same way with those balls.
Thanks, Mara, I will try an American football. BTW, have you tried giving commands in a quieter voice? I know you are just trying to cheer her on, but it worked for my Buddy. He ran faster and didn’t give me worried sideways glances anymore. I have seen a little terrier that got slower the louder the handler got, even though she was cheering and not threatening, and that made me think that some dogs might get overwhelmed by all that hoopla.
Just something else to try 😉
Jennifer,
that’s a good point about the quieter voice. Turid Rugaas addresses that in her book “On Taking Terms With Dogs: Calming Signals”. She obsered dogs in agility trials that got slower and slower as their handler got more animated. Turid’s comment was the dog was sending calming signals to the handler.
I need to remember that with Speed. He does better with less chatter.
Lois
Hello Everyone,
I’m catching up with comments and watching videos. Lots of great videos.
I worked hard to be fully engaged playing with Speed during each session. In the past I tend to throw a toy and start walking slowly, which seems to cause Speed’s energy to drop. This practice session was three 2-3 minutes runs and I tried to run with him to the toy and play all the way back to the start attempting to keep our energy together high.
I mix up my cues at one point and am late cueing several times.
At 5:01-5:34 I make several mistakes and try to improvise to keep his energy up. What could I do differently to handle these mistakes? Am I risking confusing him, or is it okay to improvise after a mistake when my goal is to keep him moving. Or should I just stop and play with him. I think the reason I made so many mistakes was because I was focusing on keeping our energy high, I wasn’t able to collect my thoughts.
After cueing mistakes, I tried to start over with the obstacle where my cue was wrong and tried to not repeat the same sequence over and over.
Overall I feel like I’m missing some fundamental handling with my hands so high. My hands are too high over his head. I look like I’m point to the moon and not the tunnel or jumps. Again, it may be due to me thinking so much about keeping his energy up.
2nd practice of lesson 3. Energy level is not as good today and I try too hard to crank him up. I should have recognized it wasn’t going to be a great training day and kept it short. The beginning of the session (first 1:30) looks a lot better than it felt. Things deteriorate from 1:30 to the end. Any thoughts on what I should have done differently after 1:30 when things deteriorate? His ‘bang it’ looks better on video than it felt. I thought he lacked enthusiasm but he does just fine. He’s not over-the-top crazy, but he pushes hard.
I think our cic-cap work is coming along and he will be tighter when my cueing is earlier and my hands are lower.
Thanks! Lois
You handle mistakes o.k., BUT there shouldn’t be so many mistakes! The problem is obstacle focus, he doesn’t focus on obstacles enough for what you’re trying to run. Try to do more sends to one jump again. Then send to one jump and then tunnel, run ahead over one jump and send to the second one etc. and build from there. Also, always start from a wrap as it gives you a head start vs. just starting a straight line with him. I never start that way as then he needs to wait for you, keeps looking back all the time and doesn’t have as much speed as he could have. Your cues are very late yes, you need to use it as a send (as the dog is completing the jump before), NOT when he is already in the air! Again, one jump or one jump + tunnel exercises would be good for you to practise timing. He needs more practise too as when you do say it in time, he stops and checks back instead of sends forward -- probably because you use it that late that often that he thinks it means turn right now -- so he is clearly very confused about it. So I would go back to lesson 1 before trying this again. He was doing really well then, but then got confused somewhere on a way because of late cues, so you need to re-train that and then build sequences more gradually and when you’re really focused to give your cues in time, to not confuse him again.
And yes, you are trying too hard to crank him up for the sequence. The best would be to end a session right there. Don’t push him to do agility when you need to push him -- it should be his choice. Bang-it looks good, let’s focus on sends to cik&cap now.
Thank you! I needed to hear this and will re-group. I wasn’t happy that things deteriorated except that I caught it on camera and can share it and really learn from it now. We’ve been to many classes where we just push through sequences without taking a step back, which is why I stopped attending classes…..still difficult to break bad habits! This will be great discussion material for my friend Robin and I. She is auditing this class.
I think it won’t take long as he was doing really well in the first videos you posted. When you get that back, make sure you progress slowly enough to keep it, it’s always better to go a step back as to push through sequences -- I think it’s also more fun for the dog when they know what they’re doing, so it could be that’s why he also looked more motivated in the first videos you posted as at the end of this video.