Here comes your second homework!
1. multi-wraps with handler in different positions: set a bar at your current cik&cap height and have a dog do multiple wraps around the wing. Change your position so that you're sometimes on take-off side, sometimes on landing side of the jump. Reward by reaching in with a toy to reward close to the wing. Multi-wraps should always be your first exercise when you put the bars on the next height and you should keep working on them on each height, it's great collection jumping exercise, I actually do some before every training, within our warm-up.
2. cik&cap sequencing: we'll mask this training for different handler positions and moves into a little sequence and include a tunnel for extra fun 🙂 Start with cap on one, try cik with handler on a landing side on 3, a shoulder pull from 4 to 5, cap with a front cross on 5, tunnel again and then push for another cik on 7. Reward in the direction of where I set number 8. Break it down in little parts first.
3. 2on2off vs. running: time to address contacts! Send a video of whatever you've got till now if you are already working on it. If you haven't done anything about it yet, those two videos show first step of 2on2off (at 3:13 of this video) - stopping in the position on a box/upside down drawer:
and running (at 1:30 of this video - I hope it's fine I used your video Gitte 🙂 ) - running over a long carpet:
If you haven't decided yet, you can work on both, using a box or up-side-down drawer for 2on2off and a carpet or a wide, thin plank for running contacts - and then see what you like better.
I have a stop on the seesaw (4 on the board, to light for 2o2o), a 2o2o on the dogwalk and a running on the aframe.
Here are some examples.
Very nice! Looks like you can focus on other exercises then 🙂 , his contacts look really nice.
Any ideas on a better table, I get a lot of arguing sometime jumping up and basic barking at the table. I have been clicker training the table since he is a baby as a fun trick during the winter. I would think he should love it by now.
Huh, well, we don’t use a table… I would probably teach automatic down as I think that would eliminate the barking and it would be easier for him to process the information then when you need another position.
Here’s a video of Emily’s current contact work. We’ve just started 2on/2off which I’ll maybe use for the teeter, and we are working on running contacts in your class. I also included a little cik/cap wrap work, we still have a long way to go, especially circling to the left, and from the landing side. Tomorrow we’ll have arena time and give the sequencing a try and will work on more weaves.
She definitely seems to enjoy RC more as 2on2off 🙂 Looks like it’s time to introduce a toy into 2on2off training to make it more exciting. Getting there with multi-wraps! 🙂
It’s true, she enjoys her RC far more, but I have to also say that in the first attempt of 2o/2o where she is outside, we did a 10.5 mile mountain climb that morning, she’s so tired you can see she takes forever to eat one little piece of kibble. Then on the second session we had been swimming all day:) So I’m hoping when I try it with a fresh puppy I have more enthusiasm, and I will certainly take your suggestion and use a toy!
I’m going to train the 2o/2o just for the sake of training it, incase I should decide later I want a stop on the DW. I am a bit conflicted on how to teach the teeter, I will confess I suck at maintaining any kind of stop behavior because I just want to GO once I start running. So even though I’ve taught my previous dogs 2o/2o on the teeter it always ends up being more of a bang and go so wondering if maybe I should just train that from the beginning? any thoughts?
major breakthru on the multi-wraps today! She did them very well and seemed to finally figure out the circling left.
Sure, it’s a good idea to train 2on2off too, but if you plan to do 4on on teeter, that will be harder then if she knows 2on2off already… I had major problems with my puppy, wanting to do 2on2off on teeter despite I absolutely wanted 4on (she is under 6kg)… For a BC, 2on2off teeter is o.k., but you want to teach a direct 2on2off, not stopping with 4on and then asking for 2off as that’s probably not going to happen in a trial situation 🙂 4on is o.k. too, but then it might be better to stop teaching 2on2off… Hm…
any tricks I could be doing instead to help with a 4 on? I really think I am not likely to stick with a 2o/2o, I just have never liked what I see it do to their bodies when the board is trying to bounce back up and they are having to slam it back down with their rear feet. She’s also somewhat sound sensitive and a very soft dog (the cupboard slamming & skate board has helped a lot) so my instinct tells me I want a behavior that lets her get off the board as fast as possible so she has less time to think about it.
Sounds reasonable! See-saw tricks coming in next lesson! 🙂
Hi Silvia,
Here is a little video with all 3 assignments. I did do some multi-wraps with varying handler position before the sequencing but didn’t tape it. Then I did some more afterward. Synergy is only 13 months so not a lot of contact work. She knows 2o/2o, which I thought I would use on DW and teeter but now I am thinking maybe I will give running DW a try again. She will run the AF like her daddy, Spritz:-) I failed at running DW with Spritz (that was before you had a class) and changed him to 2o/2o. Still deciding what to do with Synergy. Anyway, she will need 2o/2o for teeter. Other than these end behaviors, she has run up and across a full DW a couple of times a few months ago (just to make sure she is confident). She has not been on full obstacles for a long time. I have been waiting to address the contacts in this class:-)
Here’s the video:
Thanks,
Marla
Silvia,
I have two questions now that I have done these exercises a few times.
1. The last turn of the sequence (where you reward ahead after a push)… Is that how you would handle this in a competition (wrap and push) or is it just for this exercise? I am wondering because my instinct would have probably been to either rear cross that jump or get out and front cross it so the dog would not have to wrap more than 180 Degrees. Just would like to know your thoughts on this.
2. Which arm are you using for the wraps and multi-wraps. My instinct again is to use the arm closest to the dog but then switch to the arm that matches the direction they are turning once you start multi-wraps. Would love some clarification on this so I don’t keep doing the wrong thing if I am not doing it right.
Thanks,
Marla
I watched your videos and see that you use whichever arm is the direction the dog is turning (right arm for right turn). Does this mean that you approach the jump with that arm? So, if dog is on your left, do you approach jump still with your right arm if dog is to turn right? I hope this makes sense:-)
Thanks,
Marla
Not sure if I understand the question, but yes, I take the opposite hand out for tight turns IF I can come close to the jump: when I send, I use the normal arm. I also use a normal hand for soft turns that don’t require collection. Opposite arm, showing front, always means collection in my direction. Was that what you were asking?
1. Of course. I’ll always turn the easy way if the distance is shorter or equal. Will only wrap if it gives me shorter line or nicer approach. This is just a training sequence for cik&caps, making them really difficult to challenge their understanding of collection.
2. When sending to a wrap, I use the normal arm (as I want them run straight and fast first). When I’m there at the jump, I use the opposite hand in order to open front to the dog and warm them the turn is coming -- it’s my precue for a front cross. Of course, some handling systems, popular in US (not so in Europe…) believe I’ll go to hell because of that 🙂 but I think it’s the only fair thing to do. That’s why I have two hands: to use them for two different things. One says go straight, the other says watch out I’m turning, this hand will be your lead hand after that jump right here, so prepare and collect. If you only use one hand (the one closest to the dog or the other one) for both options (straight or turn), then you can as well use none 🙂
I agree totally. I used to use that system you are talking about for Sage and it has failed Spritz. Spritz is very fast and powerful and he needs the “precue” to know what is coming. Thanks for the clarification. I think I will take your handling class after this one:-)
Cool! Considering her age and when we started the cik&cap work, I would definitely keep the jumps lower for now, though. She is very tight on multi-wraps, so I’m sure she can be even tighter in sequences too, you just need to take it slowly. From the tries on a plank, I only like the last one -- nice hind feet separation and speed on a last try, but still, I would prefer to start on a carpet as it will be easier to get full speed running there. But I think that’s a good plan, to train both and then decide what you like better or even keep both, running for more or less straight exits and 2on2off for turns.
OK. I did this session today before reading your comment. I will go back to lower bar (8″). Right now it is at 16″ so we will go down by half.
What then else should I work on with her if we are not starting to raise the height? Just trying to make tighter and tighter. Would you at this point not reward turns that are not very tight?
I don’t know what to do with carpet. Should I just wait until the other class starts or can you give me some direction? Do you mean like a long carpet the length of a plank (12 feet)? And do I only reward those with feet separation? Maybe this is too many questions and I need to wait for the other class:-)
Also, can you answer my questions above (particularly would like to know if the last turn is how you would handle in competition or with a rear cross).
On this video, I used the arm in the direction the dog is turning and I think she responded much better. However, on one of the turns (which is not in this video), she stopped (refusal) when I brought arm up too early.
Sorry for all these questions but we are going on vacation early Friday morning for 10 days so this is my last time to work on these behaviors for a little while.
Thanks,
Marla
I prefer adding height slowly as I want them really comfortable with the height. There are many things I work on meantime: tightness, sends, commitments, multi-wraps, different handling situations (sequences) etc. -- everything can be done on less height. With better commitment and better understanding of cik&cap verbal cues, refusals because of the opposite hand are not a problem anymore. But yes, as long as the dog is not used to it and doesn’t know cik&cap very well yet, it can cause a refusal when done too early. It goes away with practise. I immediately redo too wide turns. If that wasn’t a training sequence, I would handle 7 to 8 as a serpentine (saying “out/back” for 7, recalling over the jump and pushing for 8).
And yes, the carpet should be at least that long as a plank and you should do everything the same as on a plank there (see the video I posted): have the dog run full speed, reward for hind feet separation regardless of the placement and jackpot good hits.
One more question, Silvia. You can see in 2o/2o that she leans forward with weight on her front when I reach to give her a treat. I try to encourage her to rock back with weight on her rear when I feed her. Do you have thoughts on this?
Thanks,
Marla
Another good thing for teaching a weight shift is tugging with the dog in a position, that makes them shift their weight back -- AND teaches them to fight to stay in a position (as the game stops otherwise).
I have started Play by running Planks I am now Back chaining the DW for speed. I have not decided if I want a 2o2o or a 4 on the floor for the DW. See saw will be a lie down in yellow and a running A frame. I have included what we are doing on the DW for speed. Val and Play
Why not running if you’re already a kind of working on it? Just put that hoop away!!!
Lots of trainers in the US use hoops, can you tell us why you don’t like them?
Well, I don’t think I know a dog who would get reliable contacts that way… I think hoops are very hard to fade as they don’t give you any other understanding as “run under the hoop” -- and when there is no hoop… I started Lo with hoops, in 1997, dreaming of running contacts… -- And so did several others in my club… Never used them again, didn’t work on not even one single dog…
Hi Silvia, here is a video from Cairo making the multi-wraps, he’s not really advance in this excercice, so here he only does the wrap to the left.
Great job!!! Much tighter on sends and really nice multi-wraps to the left, time to focus on right now! For left wraps, you can already add some height (max. 10cm). For everybody with multi-wraps troubles: you can show them with your hand as Gabriel is doing: as long as the dog is watching the object and the hand is there just as a cue to keep circling, that’s fine -- easier to keep the speed and make it a fun exercise.
Thank you, tomorrow will I put a video with the right turn wraps
Hi Silvia,
Here is a mix of lessons 1 and 2.
I’ll be on vacations tomorrow and try to work on 2on2off and running contacts.
I promice I’ll try to shut up for next videos !!!
Céline
Wow, Celine—GREAT job!!! And I can’t believe how much Karmen has grown since our first lesson in Puppy Class! 🙂 She’s beautiful & looks like she’s having so much fun!
Ooooo…Kathy is right. She is beautiful! Great job! AND nice skidding 😉
Thank you Kathy and Kristin.
Yes I LOVE this sport and it seems Karmen is enjoying it every day more !
This class is such a comforting support.
Thank you again guys
Looking forward for your videos
Karmen is sooo cute. Great job!
Great job!!! Her speed is definitely getting better and better! Thanks for showing a mix of multi-wraps and figure 8s (at 0:27) -- that’s a very good exercise for all, having difficulties getting tightness at figure 8s. You just need to spread those jumps out even more to run more in between. Keep making entries harder for the weaves, maybe put a marker on the floor so that you know where you started the last try: and then just start a little more off-line every next try. No problem with the sequence either, but make sure you get in a good habit of saying your cues in time already now… It works now as the jumps are so low and we’re doing wraps only anyway, but you’re saying it very very late -- try to say it MUCH earlier!
OK, I’ve understood everything.
If you don’t mind I’ll come back from my holidays in the first days of august and I’ll tape 2on2off and RC.
See you
Ok, THAT was fun, but I think we only did it correctly once! 😀 Here is our first attempt at the sequence. This is my first time running with cik&cap/ zig& zag…it’s going to take some practice for me. I’m also not familiar with sending a dog to the backside of a jump so I think that’s where I got confused while in motion. Even though we weren’t actually doing the exercise correctly most of the time, I’d like to know if you think I handle my own mistakes well. HE doesn’t know where we are supposed to be going so I try to keep going and not stop when I’ve goofed.
Are my obstacles too close?
I think his speed sort of surprised me too so I kept getting lost!
He looks like he is having a lot of fun 🙂
Hi Kristin, I had the same problem with speed the first times I tried this sequence. I also had a heck of a time memorizing it. Between the speed and the aging brain it was tough, but oh! so fun. I used to do these short little complicated sequences from Clean Run every month with my old dogs. With Cik/Cak it would be really fun to revisit those, but I recycled them when I thought I was done with agilty a few years ago. I have jumps just like yours and Nero kept falliing when he hit the fat bottom bar. I have since added jump bars at 6 inches to get him started jumping a little.
Nancy
Me too. So confusing now that the dog is taking the back side of the jump. I think I’ve done it wrong more times than I’ve done it right but, it’s still lots of fun. Wish I had your speed ‘problem’ 🙂 He looks great!
Well, just go with her on the other side (it’s just one little step more) and the back side won’t be a back side anymore 🙂
Great job! Great speed, great obstacle focus! Just remember to say things in time! When you’re late, he just goes with the body language and is much wider as a consequence. No problem if you get lost, I always say it’s good to sometimes get lost if you take it as an opportunity to reward 🙂
Here’s our first work on the sequencing and some weaves.
I edited out the 5 minutes it takes me at the beginning of the exercise where I stand there trying to remember which way is cik & which way is cap:)
Here’s our next go at it…
Cool. Weaves and contacts are going well, some nice multi-wraps too (first few are too wide, then it gets really good). When running the sequence, you’re very often very late with your verbals. She is nice and tight when you say it, but especially on a first video, you often don’t say it at all or way too late, so she mostly just follows your body language and is therefore often wide, not looking at the jump at all. Second session is much better, she seems to start seeing this as just another cik&cap exercise, so she has better obstacle focus, more speed and is tighter -- still room for improvement 🙂 -- but the trend is definitely good!
Thanks, I will work on getting the verbals out better. Sometimes it’s hard for me to remember which way is cik/cap so if I can’t remember on the fly I tend to not say anything:) I have always been more of a just run and use my body then a verbal handler, I am excited to get better about using verbals to help Emily out.
I know, it’s hard at the beginning, but I think it’s important. Of course, body language is the most important, but as we can provide some information also verbally at the same time -- why not?! It certainly helps -- and makes us look better handlers even when our positioning and timing is not perfect 🙂
yes, I agree that when it comes to information more is better:)
Here is our video of our multiwraps. We’ve gone back to basics with just a pole and nothing else. To awoid old habbits we have two new commands: “Kit” (= turn toward med) and “Kat” (=turn away from me).
Now when I see the video, it is clear that the place of reward sometimes is to far from the pole -- must improve this further on.
In general we’ve added some tricks in between and will carry on with this in the future -- seem’s to reduce the stress. Actually this session was with a low level of stress 😉
Kaos & Charlotte
Wouah, your dog is so beautiful ! Céline
Thank you 🙂
Yes, remember to reward close to the pole, with the head turned in, not out. Also, you’re sometimes late with cueing the next wrap, so he is sometimes wide on your side as he is checking in for his reward. When you are in time with a cue and reward him in, it looks very good, though!!!
Here comes our 2. and 3. session. The 2. session is our 2o2o-training. I have until recently been very pleased with his behavior (also without the toy ahead). But know he suddenly not always adjust his speed enough, and will end with all four feet in the grass. I’ve no doubt about him knowing what to do -- he even does it unasked under the session -- furthermore he has done it perfectly until now. I’ve started to use the toy ahead again (as when I taught him the behavior), but he still ends in the grass sometimes. My problem is, that he sometimes does it two times in a row -- why? and how can I tell him it isn’t okay? My own explanation is his age (14 months -- troublemaker-age), and therefore he might test me? I have with 100% acuracy NEVER awarded him if he didn’t end with 2o2o -- not even when he backs up again… Shall I let him try the dogwalk again or simply pause the training when he doesn’t meet my criteria? or any other suggestions?…
Well, the good news is that the dogs like this who don’t care all that much and can do it even twice in a row usually have the best and fastest 2on2off 🙂 It’s much bigger problem when the dog makes sure he is right when asked again by slowing down too much 🙂 So yes, I think he sometimes just too much in a hurry, but if you stay consistent, he will figure out there is no other way to the toy. Also, walk back slowly and be as boring as it gets so that he doesn’t find redoing too much fun 🙂 You could also try a time out. But as I said, his speed, technique and understanding is very good, so that’s a great start.
Getting there with the wraps too, caps are actually very good already, ciks could still be tighter, so do some more of those.
Thanks for the good news 🙂 This makes me believe that his 2o2o will be succesfull as long as I’m consistent. I’ve added todays multiwraps:
Cool, getting tighter&tighter. Maybe you could now try to get the same performance on something that looks a little bit more like a jump? Like two real jump stanchions, but with no bar yet (not even on the floor) -- to not make it look too much like a jump.
Here are my 2o2o contacts. He slows down anticipating the position especially if I am behind. What do you suggest I do?
As far as the sequence, I can see he is making too wide cik caps so I am doing wraps after the tunnel and rewarding close. I will do this a few days then post the sequence video. Is this the right thing to do to tighten the cik caps or do you have other suggestions? Thank you
Try exciting him with a toy, then restrain close to the end of a DW (at its side), throw a toy a couple of meters ahead and have him jump in a position on DW (no steps on DW yet, just jumping in a position) and then release to a toy ahead. When he starts to love this game, restrain him further back so that he jumps on a DW from the side and does a step or two on it before getting to the position and throw a toy further and further so that it’s behind the jump eventually and he start to look for the jump for his toy. Don’t rush it, make sure he keeps the speed and move him closer to the end again if he slows down again at one point.
It’s good to post a sequence when you are still having problems with it, so that we can try to help solving them 🙂 But yes, you’re doing the right thing, only that I would try to do some multi-wraps after a tunnel (before rewarding close) to make him see it’s the same exercise even when you come with lots of speed.
Hope that helps some, let us know how it goes!