Time for a new lesson! And a "catch-up break" 🙂 With every class, we do a two weeks break for those who got somewhat behind to catch up and for those who are on schedule to give a dog a little break from plank running. I'll be answering your questions till Tuesday 4th October night and then again after 14 days, from 19th October morning again. Please don't post your videos during this time, I won't be reviewing old videos as things can change in 2 weeks.
If you're behind, make sure to complete lesson 1 before you start with lesson 2 and that you complete lesson 2 before starting with lesson 3 - you can't jump steps, there is a reason I'm giving you this assignments in the order that I do!
1. switch to a static toy, position it at the bar of a jump with a bar on the ground. The jump should be straight forward after the plank, about 7m away. The goal is the dog starts to look for a jump, knowing the toy is there. Occasionally, still throw a toy in advance, but mostly, have it there. When the dog already knows where it is, put a jump bar very low and a toy behind it (close after it, but far enough that the dog can land normally). Keep it there long enough that the dog is expecting it there. When you see the dog is pulling well towards the jump, knowing the toy is there, stop leaving the toy there and throw it after you click the contact, so that the dog gets it after the jump.
The goal is to switch from a static toy that is there as a target for the dog to focus him forward to a jump as a target to focus the dog forward and a toy as a reward we throw AFTER we see the contact is good. You need to be pretty quick as you don't want the dog to wait for the toy - so quick that I sometimes throw it before I realize the contact was actually not THAT good - but it gets easier 🙂 I guess this step will finally make everybody worried about rewarding leaps happy as now, you can withhold the toy for unsuccessful tries. HOWEVER, make sure the dog successful rate is high for this step as otherwise, you can loose the speed and get the dog checking back with you if you're throwing a toy or not. The same can be dangerous if you're late throwing a toy.
This is usually an easy step for BCs who will run full speed in anticipation of the toy, but can be a very hard one for some other dogs. For Le, that was the hardest step. She was running beautifully if the ball was still rolling when she saw it, but if I threw it that early that it was already static when she saw it (or when I positioned it there), then she didn't extend well enough. What finally worked was going few steps back with height, exciting her a lot with a toy, throwing it at the jump and sending her quickly to the dog-walk. That made her striding good enough to continue long enough to have her look for the jump and then I quickly switched to a toy, thrown after the contact is done, over the jump. That temporary caused some checking back with me, so I needed to go back to a stationary toy again, but then she finally got the idea to keep running full speed towards the jump/tunnel and trust the toy will appear then 🙂 and that again gave me the beautiful striding I had before trying to get rid of a toy, thrown in advance.
If the transition to a stationary toy is too hard, another way to try to avoid that phase is to pretend you are throwing a toy in advance, but then only throw it after. OR, using a tunnel as a way to focus the dog forward and throw it after the tunnel - works great with tunnel crazy dogs, didn't work with Le. Try and report back if you have problems.
2. keep adding height. If you have an option, it's also time to try the real thing. If you don't ahve a low DW you can use a normal dog-walk with additional plank at the end. Start with down ramp only and then slowly put the dog further&further back until you run the whole dog-walk.
When trying this or any other, new variable, don't vary other variables - make it as easy for the dog to succeed as possible. You can also lower a criteria somewhat. Normally, your criteria about hits by now should already be to be deeply in the contact - but temporary, you can click for good tries on a limit too, IF hind feet are well separated and the dog is not leaping.
3. new trick: have a dog back up on something very low and preferably soft first (folded blanket, low pillow) - then slowly add height, so that they need to pick up their hind legs higher&higher. At the same time, you can teach a "pee trick": click for lifting the leg, searching for an object, before they touch it. Make sure to try to get leg lifts on both sides - they usually prefer to go up with the same leg, so try to sometimes position them somewhat diagonally in front of an object so that their preferred leg is too far from it to start with that one. Also try climbing stairs backwards and cavaletti backwards.
Have fun! I'll be back to answering on 19th October and will publish new assignments on 7th November, so you'll again have 3 weeks to work on this assignment in class form - and 2 additional weeks to either catch up or take a break 🙂
Hi Silvia,
before I start to post our training sessions:
Congratulation to your 3rd place at WC with La and to all the great runs with both, La and Bu!!! We were not in Lievin this time (I (Christina) picked up my new puppy on that weekend), but we watched the livestreem on Sunday. Great!
But now Blue´s running contacts:
In the “break” we started to place a static toy on the bar of a jump. The problem was, he had no speed, because we were not throwing and I think he didn´t realize the ball.
Then Helmut had the idea to take a bigger (really big big one) ball 🙂 and now it works!
We have already placed it AFTER the jump and raised the bar to Blue´s current high. He is doing really great and we have more jackpots than with the throwing ball.
We also tried to run a low dog walk, but there he jumped again (we think he is not really confident on a narrow down ramp) -- so next week we will cut our wide plank a little bit.
So our plan for the next 1 and half weeks is: make the plank more narrow and the ball smaller 🙂
Here is the video of our Sunday´s session (the ball is placed about 3 meters after the jump, so you cannot see it on the video -- is that ok?)
Congratulations on your puppy! Where did you get him/her from then? I somewhat forgot you’re still on a wide plank, it’s definitely time to narrow it yes so that you can try real DW next. When trying real DW, try to use whatever makes him the most successful and lower the criteria some so that you have something to reward and give him confidence. So yes, sounds like a good plan to make a ball smaller and a plank more narrow. It’s good how you placed the toy. You can also raise the plank some more as he seems to be running really nicely, ready for the next session! Great job! And thanks for congratulations, I was sure very happy with La&Bu, I didn’t think La can still set times like this 🙂
Hi, Silvia. I need a little help after today. I think Da Vinci did well with the different approaches. The problem I ran into was him not taking the tunnel after the DW. At first the MM was out there but I was using his squeaky ball for a jackpot (still giving some treats out of the MM though since I really can’t tell his preference). He did great initially and then stopped taking the tunnel. Eventually, I just removed the MM altogether thinking it was causing confusion. I don’t know.
If he didn’t take the tunnel, I went back to it and asked for it before he got his rewards if the DW was a hit. Is that the right way to handle it?
Should I curve the tunnel all the way back instead of having it at a 90 degree turn? Should I go back to a straight tunnel?
…and the problem of not taking the tunnel only happened when I was running on his right side.
The one he all on his own was quite nice! I’m surprised he went all that way without me!
Cool, he really seems to understand his job! And yes, it was o.k. to handle the tunnel skipping like you did, but I would definitely avoid the problem by straightening it back out, but this time not using a mm anymore, but instead throw a ball so that he sees it as he is exiting (+ then give him some extra treats if he might prefer that). You can then also try a jump and once he sees the reward is always coming after the next obstacle, I’m sure a curved tunnel won’t be a problem anymore. You can also bring the tunnel/jump somewhat closer (to a normal distance like you would see in trials), might make it easier.
Hi Silvia and thanks for your comment. I´ve done another film today. First part is ok but second part is worse. I guess I have to limit my runs to maximum 10 times. Or do you think there is another reason for being better in the beginning? I am as you can see pingponging between starting on top of dw and start from the tunnel. I try to start with one or 2 from top and then going back if she is leaping running the whole dw. Looking forward to your comment
Looks like her major problem is trying to go for 3 strides. Let’s try raising that DW for quite some height (like making it 3 times higher as now) to make 3 steps less tempting. Also, did you ever try a static toy? That might take a little bit of speed off and make it easier for her to do 4 strides -- and with 4 strides, she is always nicely in, so if we could get 4, that would sure solve the problem 🙂
Silvia,
Earlier this week Stella had a great 100% nice hit session : )
so I raised the height at night so it would be all set for the early morning… I think we’re at about 30 inches now… and our first session on the new height was just great, good speed and confidence, high percentage good hits. No video.
Then, we went to our double class in the morning and later in the afternoon after her nap, I tried the training again… below is the video… she must have been tired because she was not as confident or fast as the morning… It is only around the 2 minute mark that she really settles in, before that she’s not leapy but trotting some or awkward striding… I kept checking that the dw was solid enough and it seemed to be…
anyway here it is… I guess my question would be Do you think I can add a jump or tunnel at either end again?
thanks, Dinah
actually its more around the 2:35 mark she settles into more consistent striding…
also I should add I have started using the clicker more often in sessions now that I know it won’t make her turn to look at me. But I was wondering whether it was possible the clicker was making her OVER-think the contacts…
we’re on a break from the training again until Tuesday… but this is a race against the weather here. I am hoping the ground doesn’t freeze or snow fall before she’s full height… and beginning turns to obstacles—so that then I can continue work on a full dw somewhere inside
Am I hoping for too much too soon?
Yeah, that was definitely slower as normally, but she could be tired because of the double class and all. It’s good she can have a break now and then when you train again, you can definitely try obstacles before and after too, I don’t think it was an issue in a first place anyway. And yes, raising it actually gets really easy and fast at this point of the process, so you can certainly raise it to full height soon, would be good to try it on different DWs soon anyway.
I admit I almost didn’t want to post! This break has been a struggle for Nevis and I. Of course Nevis and I would have a regression during break and I’m still trying to dig myself out of it.
Break started with a beautiful session with Amy and Anne at Anne’s using a table to single down plank. Besides one bad toss they were all perfect! I put together same set up except using my wide plank at home and that was when the leaps started. Unfortunately with all our rain I wasn’t taping everything and when I finally figured a way to tape in rain I saw right away our problem. Bouncy board and it turns out my table is also very wiggly. I was never able to stabilize my table and by then I just had to go back to old set up to try and get anything to click! We have sunk as low as 100% miss sessions. Well here is my video of the fiasco.
After the video set up I did try an up ramp to a down ramp but then saw your post about the dog might start leaping the apex. At first he was doing good and I was getting some hits but after a couple of sessions he did start leaping the apex and it was back to a lots of misses. I have video of it that I haven’t uploaded yet. But tonight I am back to a single plank raised up. There are just a lot of times where he will take the plank in one stride and that never spells success with the contact.
One other thing I noticed tonight is that where I throw ball there is a hill so often the ball is going out of sight. If we don’t get snow tonight I am going to angle the set up to a place that has a longer run out. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Shona and Nevis
I got the other video up so you can see my two plank set up. This was from this morning. I have to admit that one good thing about this session is that Nevis went that many misses without shutting down:-)
Well, it’s especially important to post when there are problems! And yes, some set ups can be really hard. Nevis’s problem is that with his length of a stride, he can only do two hits on a plank if the first one is very high, meaning any leaping over apex will make him miss. Mostly likely, he will have 4 stride DW pattern, meaning that he will actually need to hit the down ramp with hind feet first (as front feet first would take him too deep on a down ramp to be able to take another stride). Low DW is the best to be able to get this pattern… -- do you have one or could build something similar? I would do a couple of sessions on flat planks to get the nice running back and then try either low DW or try to build something with horizontal plank + down ramp.
My husband bless his heart did just make me a dog walk. I was wondering if a low dogwalk might help but was afraid to jump to yet another set up without your input!
I have already told Nevis that next time he decides to give my mind a challenge to do when we are NOT on break 🙂
🙂 Good luck with the DW, let us know how it went!
I have not been able to try the full length dog walk due to the 12 inches of snow that is covering it 🙂 but I think it should melt this week so hopefully soon. Till then I figured I would upload my tricks video.
I haven’t shown any video of tricks up to this point but we have been doing them! I also must say as a person that never did many tricks before…we are having a blast with it. My only issue now is managing the competition between the two young boys.
httpv://i1.ytimg.com/vi/0e_QkPLEViU/default.jpg
just when I think I know how to upload video!
Attempt # 2
Great! Nevis sure seems to enjoy the tricks! And what a balance in that small bowl! Ready for the next size 🙂 I hope you can get back to DW work soon too!
Silvia, We did a lot of runs with the ramp on a small hill and the tunnel at 19 feet. Then moved the tunnel to 17 feet and then to 25 feet. What would you like for me to do next?
Cool, looks good. Let’s try to go even steeper next (if possible). Then you can introduce a horizontal plank, again using a hill so that he enters the horizontal plank without leaping on it, then support it on the other side so that’s it’s straight and leads to a down ramp -- does that makes sense or I try to draw it?
I THINK I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN. I’LL TRY IT THIS AFTERNOON.
BILL
Bill; Why do you use those poles in those places? Inquiring minds need to know
🙂
Pam, I most likely don’t need them any more. I started using them when I first started running him on the ground because he would sometimes just run by the board. I was also using cones leading up to the board, but not any more. I think I’ll need them at the end of the board when Silvia has me having him turn after the exit. That way he will run through the end of the ramp and not jump off of the side.
Bill
Oh! Thanks for the explanation. I wondered if you used them as a guide to start and finish of the board so it would be easier for you to see.
Hi Silvia,
I’m still a bit confused as to how you are counting strides/hits on the DW.
I guess I’m used to using the “hit” terminology on the AF.
So when you say a 4 strided DW, can you explain what that means a bit more?
Thanks
-grace
Yes, sorry. I count full strides on DW. If you see a video of my dogs that I posted, Le (at the end) has 5 strides/6hits DW: hitting the contact, doing one full stride on up ramp, jumping the apex with the second one, doing the third one on horizontal plank, jumping the second apex with fourth one and doing one more on down ramp. So she hits (with all 4 feet) twice on each ramp: 6 hits, 5 strides. Bi shows 4 (and 3 🙂 ) strides, 5 (or 4) hits DW: hits a contact, one stride on up ramp, second to horizontal plank, third stride takes her till the end of horizontal plank so that front feet still hit that plank and hind feet already hit down ramp and then with 4th stride, she is in. In Europe, on longer DWs, most BCs have 5 strides DW. US length only allows 4 strides for BC size dogs. 3 is not so cool to handle 🙂 but Bi actually often does it on shorter DWs that we see -- mine (the one on a video) is one of the longest allowed DWs here.
Silvia, how do I find the video of Le and Bi on the DW so I can see the hits and strides?
Hey Bill,
The video is under lesson 1 -- on the first page.
Thanks Silvia, now I remember watching that but I didn’t fully understand the first time. I get it now.
Thanks Grace,
Bill
Hello Silvia,
Below are yesterday’s videos for Eli and Liberty. Eli has made some progress this week 🙂 I started him about 1/2 way on the dog walk and after some sucessful hits I let him run the full dog walk twice and both times he appeared to have good hits one of which I jackpotted. This is the last try in his video.
Liberty is still running well. I am still throwing the kong in advance for her. She is letting me run along side her now and not leaping so this is an improvement. Maybe going to a stationary toy will be next 🙂 How does her striding look on the dog walk? Yesterday was the first day she started jumping the apex and it would appear that this makes her hits deeper.
Thanks,
Melanie, Eli and Liberty
Looks good! 🙂 Pay attention to Eli’s hind feet separation, the whole DW try actually looked much better as the ones from the middle. If he keeps running like that, that would be great! With Liberty, I would keep throwing the toy a little longer as I would want even more extension: she might need some more time to get completely comfortable with the DW.
Just a quick up date, no video; I raised the DW 4 sessions ago. The first session, went ok; the second session she had more misses than before, today’s session she was perfect, with me running on either side of her, and even sometimes behind her. I will keep her at this height for a few more sessions. Currently she is running towards and over a jump on either end of the DW. Should I start moving the jumps to the side a little or is it too soon for her still?
Thank you.
Great! You can move and/or angle the jumps some so that they look somewhat different, but keep them relatively straight for now.
A quick question, how much should I be raising the DW by at this point? This last time I raised it only about 15cm. Is that enough? The DW is now at 2.5 feet.
Ania 🙂
15cm is enough, but you could probably also raise it some more… But less and more frequently instead is actually better.
Silvia, I moved to a steeper part of the hill and added the DW top. Tunnel is 18 feet away. I’m very happy that it went very well. I’m looking forward to you seeing the video and telling me what to do next!
That looks great! The hill is what worked for Maia and I too 🙂 maybe it’s a sheltie thing 😉
Great!!! I would do 3 or 4 more sessions on this set up, moving the tunnel for one foot every few tries to make sure he is still hitting. I would also remove those poles, I don’t think he still needs them and then you can really be sure he is not cuing from them. If that all goes well, you can either move to a steeper part if you can find something even steeper, using the same set up. If you don’t have anything steeper, next variable to change is adding up ramp. Ideally, you would again use the hill, the top part this time so that he runs up hill on the up plank, then you fix the horizontal one straight and down ramp is going down hill.
I did one session today. Removed the poles, moved the tunnel exit to 20 feet, 23 feet and 25.5 feet for 3 runs each. All runs were good. I looked all over for a hill that all 3 pieces of the dog walk would fit on. Found one and the park will not allow dogs ☹. I may be able to move the present setup a little to make it steeper. I’ll try that for 2 or 3 more session, but don’t know what to do next.
Great! Next, you can raise the apex some more. It will give some angle to a horizontal plank too, but some angle is o.k. Once we get even more angle, we’ll simply introduce up-plank -- won’t be really much “up”, but it should work that way too.