Time for a new lesson! And a "catch-up break" 🙂 With every class, we do a two weeks break for those who got somewhat behind to catch up and for those who are on schedule to give a dog a little break from plank running. I'll be answering your questions till Tuesday 4th October night and then again after 14 days, from 19th October morning again. Please don't post your videos during this time, I won't be reviewing old videos as things can change in 2 weeks.
If you're behind, make sure to complete lesson 1 before you start with lesson 2 and that you complete lesson 2 before starting with lesson 3 - you can't jump steps, there is a reason I'm giving you this assignments in the order that I do!
1. switch to a static toy, position it at the bar of a jump with a bar on the ground. The jump should be straight forward after the plank, about 7m away. The goal is the dog starts to look for a jump, knowing the toy is there. Occasionally, still throw a toy in advance, but mostly, have it there. When the dog already knows where it is, put a jump bar very low and a toy behind it (close after it, but far enough that the dog can land normally). Keep it there long enough that the dog is expecting it there. When you see the dog is pulling well towards the jump, knowing the toy is there, stop leaving the toy there and throw it after you click the contact, so that the dog gets it after the jump.
The goal is to switch from a static toy that is there as a target for the dog to focus him forward to a jump as a target to focus the dog forward and a toy as a reward we throw AFTER we see the contact is good. You need to be pretty quick as you don't want the dog to wait for the toy - so quick that I sometimes throw it before I realize the contact was actually not THAT good - but it gets easier 🙂 I guess this step will finally make everybody worried about rewarding leaps happy as now, you can withhold the toy for unsuccessful tries. HOWEVER, make sure the dog successful rate is high for this step as otherwise, you can loose the speed and get the dog checking back with you if you're throwing a toy or not. The same can be dangerous if you're late throwing a toy.
This is usually an easy step for BCs who will run full speed in anticipation of the toy, but can be a very hard one for some other dogs. For Le, that was the hardest step. She was running beautifully if the ball was still rolling when she saw it, but if I threw it that early that it was already static when she saw it (or when I positioned it there), then she didn't extend well enough. What finally worked was going few steps back with height, exciting her a lot with a toy, throwing it at the jump and sending her quickly to the dog-walk. That made her striding good enough to continue long enough to have her look for the jump and then I quickly switched to a toy, thrown after the contact is done, over the jump. That temporary caused some checking back with me, so I needed to go back to a stationary toy again, but then she finally got the idea to keep running full speed towards the jump/tunnel and trust the toy will appear then 🙂 and that again gave me the beautiful striding I had before trying to get rid of a toy, thrown in advance.
If the transition to a stationary toy is too hard, another way to try to avoid that phase is to pretend you are throwing a toy in advance, but then only throw it after. OR, using a tunnel as a way to focus the dog forward and throw it after the tunnel - works great with tunnel crazy dogs, didn't work with Le. Try and report back if you have problems.
2. keep adding height. If you have an option, it's also time to try the real thing. If you don't ahve a low DW you can use a normal dog-walk with additional plank at the end. Start with down ramp only and then slowly put the dog further&further back until you run the whole dog-walk.
When trying this or any other, new variable, don't vary other variables - make it as easy for the dog to succeed as possible. You can also lower a criteria somewhat. Normally, your criteria about hits by now should already be to be deeply in the contact - but temporary, you can click for good tries on a limit too, IF hind feet are well separated and the dog is not leaping.
3. new trick: have a dog back up on something very low and preferably soft first (folded blanket, low pillow) - then slowly add height, so that they need to pick up their hind legs higher&higher. At the same time, you can teach a "pee trick": click for lifting the leg, searching for an object, before they touch it. Make sure to try to get leg lifts on both sides - they usually prefer to go up with the same leg, so try to sometimes position them somewhat diagonally in front of an object so that their preferred leg is too far from it to start with that one. Also try climbing stairs backwards and cavaletti backwards.
Have fun! I'll be back to answering on 19th October and will publish new assignments on 7th November, so you'll again have 3 weeks to work on this assignment in class form - and 2 additional weeks to either catch up or take a break 🙂
Silvia, I took your advise and put the ramp on a small hill. You can see in the background that the hill gets steeper, so I can move it if you want.
Bill; Your video is private and can’t be viewed.
It’s private. When you fix it, reply to your or mine post here, it makes it easier to find your video again if you post things as replies to the videos.
OK Silvia, I didn’t even notice the small reply at the bottom. Sorry. I got it changed to public. Don’t give up on me , I may be a slow learner, but I’ll get it. It has taken me a while to get used to your web site. I’m trying very hard.
Bill
Great, thanks for replying here, it makes things easier as yes, I agree sometimes it’s hard to find things here, with so many posts every day!
Cool, looks like that should work! I would put that jump further away from the plank though, if it’s so close it’s almost a kind of a stride regulator. I think you can move to the steeper place already, he is doing really well on this video, the only thing is that he looks somewhat slower as before, but maybe it’s because of that jump so close… Maybe tunnel would actually be better as the jump? Great job with tricks too, he is sure a quick learner!
How far from the plank should I put the tunnel. By the way, This morning I had him do the same setup again. After several runs he had 3 leaps, so I moved the jump from 6′ to 8′ and he was in again.
I’ll try a steeper part of the hill and a tunnel this afternoon.
Bill
The tunnel/jump should be at least twice as far… I usually put my tunnels like 20 feet out.
Hi, Silvia. I went out to do some RC practice today and it was a BIG battle with Da Vinci. He was convinced we were there to play with his buddy…not to work. When I did get him to train (and play) with me, he was 50/50. My question is…do you think he is “testing” the behavior with me or do you think I’m simply dealing with a 13 month old intact boy dog who is very distracted? Any suggestions on handling it? When I did get him working with me, he had tons of enthusiasm. I’m asking because I’ve never had an intact dog so I don’t really know how much of that is playing into days like today. He is scheduled to be neutered in a few weeks.
The first time I got him out and couldn’t get his attention, I just put him back in the car for a few minutes. I brought him out on leash, played a bit and then we did about 6 repetitions…they were either FANTASTIC hits or BIG leaps. We ended on a good one and played a very energetic game of tug. Then left the field on leash.
I don’t think he is testing you. To me, it just sounds as if he was extra excited and it affected his striding, so that he was in between skipping one stride -- or taking it and that took him nicely in. This will probably happen every time he adds some speed as more speed requires different striding -- that’s why I like to work with full speed right from the start, because then you don’t have those set backs every time the speed changes. The good thing is that by now, however, you already got enough understanding that you’ll be able to work through it, but it’s normal he finds it hard to meet the criteria when adding more speed. RC is not just about understanding, it also requires experience.
So while his focus might be connected to his hormones, I think that once you got his focus, the problem was different and nothing but experience will help with that…
Thanks! I guess this is a GREAT time to be training RC with him then! Might be challenging, but it will only make us better in the long run 😀
Silvia, Sorry, I keep forgetting to sit the video to public. It’s fixed now.
Hi, I sold my dog walk and it leaves tomorrow -- I’m getting a new aluminum and rubber one on Thursday -- so I thought I would run my old one at full height before it leaves. I know yesterday I was running planks and today full height dw but he is competing so sometimes I need him to be on full height. Well the first run I just stood there because we were just playing ball and all of a sudden he decided to run the dog walk so I just laughed and let him. Then the second run I was jogging out to place the toy after a jump that was 12 feet away and all of a sudden I heard him on the dog walk and I decided to throw the toy and just go with it. Then the next 3 times I sent him around a wing and to the static toy placed after the jump which is set 12′ back and 12″ high. What a clever boy, they were some of his better hits and runs!! Finally a little encouragement!! I think he really liked running to the static toy. I’ll only have a plank for the next few days so I’ll go back to single plank work until my new dog walk comes. Have a great weekend!
Interesting, definitely much better as the last time you tried raised DW! Maybe you can indeed play some with going from a plank to DW and back some and see if he keeps running the DW like that. Even more reach forward with hind legs would be even better, but it definitely looks pretty good like that too! 🙂
I also forgot to ask -- If I’m having success at full height should I keep him here or drop it back down? Thanks, Pamela
Silvia, The video is from 10/22. The ramp is set on a steeper hill. I know that it does not look like it, but I had to move the camera because the neighbors didn’t want to be in the video. I think tomorrow I’ll replace the jump with a tunnel to see if it will increase his speed and get his rear feet into the middle of the contact zone.
Not bad, but yes, play some with starting positions to see if you can help him get deeper in to have more to jackpot.
I agree. I think she is happy if there is a jackpot or not. I don’t think she gets that part of it. I don’t really want her practicing this new leap game either. I will try the tunnel. I will play around with where I am starting her too.
I was contemplating adding a hoop but I don’t think that will really make her aware of what her feet are doing.
Oh, no, no hoops please. I’m just wandering… Anybody know of any dog ever successfully trained with hoops? This is something I tried 15 years ago, with Lo, learned a lesson and never did it again nor I saw ANY dog EVER with good contacts, trained that way, so I just don’t get why people keep coming up with hoops. I even know of somebody who trained his Sheltie really well by my method, but then “just to be sure” (???) set the hoops when using a DW in sequences -- and ruined it all. So see if different starting position and fading the toy helps -- and if not, go back down.
Hi Silvia,
I am afraid we are not progressing at all -- we are still running on flat board -at one stage he was getting slower and more misses. I started sending him through the tunnel as you suggested, it was good for a couple of goes then he kept running off the board. Tried a few unsuccessful sessions with the tunnel & in then end , he did not want to got through the tunnel. In another session, I send him through a set of channel weaves by the side of the board then Cik/cap him over a jump then the board -- we had fantastic success for half a dozen tries then it went bad again. I have also returned to basic, in front of the board……..
We had a break for about a week -- he had a sore back. First day back training today -- he was very keen -- so keen that he did the board in one stride! Subsequent tries were just leaping!
So am feeling rather discouraged and thinking of not training RC -- the weather is also getting hottter & hotter with the onset of summer. Harley is so sensitive & shuts down easily when he does not get a click!
Do you think I should train a stop contact instead?
When people start to consider teaching a stop, I always say yes, go for it. Training RC under pressure and frustrated, thinking about teaching a stop instead, hoping to trial soon, is never good. So teaching a stop and then later on coming back to RC to play with it some more and see if it can happen gives much better results. Meantime, I would also work on his toy drive as I think the major reason for problems is that his speed is not consistent and he doesn’t give it all for a ball -- that makes his striding unpredictable and his running more airy. Also, knowing his shutting down problem, I would next time approach running contacts with no running contacts in mind, just playing ball, running over a plank or carpet, having fun and forgetting about it all. Once he finds the game lots of fun and really has full speed (and not before!), you can start marking and jackpotting the best hits. Do NOT mark bad ones. That will make things better I think, but yes, it can take time, so it’s perfectly o.k. to introduce a stop and start trialing with 2on2off -- and only playing with RC in free time 🙂
Thanks Silvia. I am in no hurry to trial -- just that we are not progressing with RC at all.
have you any tips for training a stop? The method I know is backchaining on a slightly raised board- what do you think of it?
Also can we play with RC as you suggested and at the same time, train a stop? Would it be too confusing for him?
Simply refresh the 2on2off trick on a box/drawer we did in a puppy class and then try it using the end of a real DW, having him come from the side, giving the same verbal cue as for the 2on2off position. If they know the trick well enough, they have no problem generalizing it to DW and then you just bring him from further&further back -- you can use somewhat lowered DW, but we usually simply do it on full height right away and have a dog who mastered the puppy trick of 2on2off well (see the video of a little dog doing 2on2off on a box that I posted to 1st Foundation class) do full DW with a perfect stop at the end in one lesson: it’s really easy. It usually doesn’t affect their RC at all, the only thing I noticed is that if you show them you’re not happy with one try, they might try to do 2on2off in the next. But you’re still very far from being able to show him you’re not happy with any of the tries, so there is nothing to worry about, just use different verbal cues of course.
That’s great Silvia! I did not realised how well he learnt his puppy class tricks until I tried him on the dog walk plank on the ground. He offered the behaviour immediately and had no problem as I took him further and further back.
Will see how we go with the dog walk up.. & we will continue to play with RC.
Yes, if they know that puppy trick, it’s really sooo easy -- we have it in one session. No need to work on the floor, that might be more confusing for his (hopefully future) RC as doing it on half or full height right away.
Hello everyone,
Here is our latest work. I changed the set-up to include the tunnel. This seems to increase the success rate. I also made this video so that all the work is there (normal speed shot and then a shorter clip of the contact in slow-mo). Having watched at the others now, this seems to give the best picture of what we are doing. I notice that my clicking is very late (seems not to have been bad in previous videos, but it is here!). Fast-moving black mini legs are proving hard to see!
When I was doing this session I was thinking most runs were not great, but when looking at the video I think most were ok. We have a bit of a pattern with training. The firs 4-5 runs are disasters (I did not include these on this video -- they are obviously bad eg she jumps off the plank sideways and early etc), and then she settles down and there is a bad run about 1 in every 5 or less.
I did try the toy again bit it didn’t work out . She slows down. About how long should I take to curve around the tunnel? She cheats and skips it as soon as I bend it (cheaky girl -- she can pick the best line to the food). My other dog went from straight to bent in 2 sessions -- no problem (he’s an honest worker)
Comments welcome! We seem not to be going forward much, but we have not had many sessions lately. I think the quality is improving, but I don’t believe she understands the idea of contact zone yet. My grass is icy and slippery in the mornings and at night, which is restricting us to training at weekends.
Great job with tricks! Those hits that you jackpotted were really nice too, but yes, still some leapy ones… I also hope we can change that pattern of bad tries at the beginning and make her succeed with a first try already! Maybe if you start with some other stuff, to burn some of the energy off? Or starting her closer to the end? You can keep the tunnel straight for now and then maybe introduce some gates to prevent her from going directly to the bowl when starting to curve it? Once it’s realyl curved, you don’t need a bowl anymore anyway, you then reward from your hand. But no hurry with it for now, I would keep working on this height for a little longer, trying different starting points and trying to get some adjustments to hit the end out of her.
Silvia, I’m happy to report that moving the tunnel from 20 feet, that gave some high hits, to 19 feet gave us, all but one, very good hits. Should I repeat this for a few more sessions or move the ramp to where it is a little steeper on the hill?
Cool! I would do a couple of more successful sessions like this, then move to the steeper part and if that still goes well, play with moving a tunnel some to see if we can get him to try to be in even with different starting positions (lesson 2) -- that part is very important for him, given that he is in between 4 and 5 strides on full length DW what ill require quite some adjustments from him.
Thanks, I’ll get back to you in a few days.