Most people think I gain most with running contacts, but as there are maximum two occasions to do running contacts per course (none in jumpers), that's not really true. You can gain the most on turns. Tight turns make the biggest difference, especially in nowadays 3rd degree/masters courses where it's all about the turns...
Teaching cik&cap is the best investment to
- improve your course times
- make handling and timing easier for you
- improve your dog's obstacle focus, distance skills, sends and independent performance
- take lots of stress off your dog's joints
- make turns more fun for your dog
For more on Cik&Cap, see a training DVD or join Agility Foundation Class.
Normal jump vs. cik
Here is an example of our non existing tight turns a few trainings ago.
But I don’t know why the second link is not working 🙂
Because of the edit=vd& in it -- this would be the right form:
And yes, I see the same problem -- she is fine when she has an easy approach like in 2, but when she needs to collect, like on 5, she doesn’t know how to do that. And I think your German hand is just pushing her out even more 🙂 Try low bars with extra hard approaches and see what you get.
Okay, thanks for your quick advice! I’ll try it and see what I get 🙂
Hi Silvia!
I really need to ask you about puppy agility. There is a lot in the moment about puppies should not do agility in any way, and I was posting your video of Le at 6 months on the facebook site of the dog club that I’m in, and a few people was just like.. Freaking out, because there are sure that tight turns and speed like that are too much for a little puppy. Some of them did go ask a vet and ofc when he heard the words “agility” and “puppy” together, he did say that we should wait till the dog is at least 1 year, but I am sure that the only thing the vet knows about agility is that the dog has to jump a lot, but it is not like that when it is puppy training.
It’s just really difficult to find out the “right” way to train “agility” with a puppy without risking any problems with their body later.. What do you think about it? Le is really good at tight turns and with speed…
-Michelle, Denmark.
(The picture: Lulu, 6 months old)
Lulu is too cute in her sweater! 🙂 And well, my puppies do so much racing with other dogs, running in the woods, tricks that require tons of strength and balance etc. that some running around wings doesn’t make a difference for them 🙂 Of course, I don’t do tons of it and not every day, but I don’t believe it’s bad for them. I think what is bad for the dogs is to not get any proper exercise and conditioning and is then all of the sudden expected from them to jump full height, raising the bars up within 2 weeks… I’m raising the bars up for a year to prepare them for jumping gradually + do tons of work on their conditioning so they’re as fit as it gets. Cik&cap also allows them to prepare for each turn well in advance, slow down as needed, and turn before or over the bar rather as jumping full speed in one direction and then putting the breaks on, falling on their shoulders etc. as I often see with dogs who don’t have cik&cap training -- turns only get bad on their joints then, when they were not taught how to execute them safely. So I think not doing anything for a year and then throwing it all at unprepared dog is actually much riskier and definitely not good for their bodies. Preparing them slowly for it and teaching them how to execute turns safely sounds much safer to me! As my dogs compete on very high level until very old age (Lo was competing at full height at 12 years and La is setting best times on World Championships at 10 years of age) and have no injuries, I have no doubts I must be doing something right 🙂
Hi! I hope all is going well with you and your pups 🙂 I just have a quick question regarding cik/cap training.
In reviewing our training videos on cik/cap, I noticed that my girls are really tight around the pole/cone, but only on certain sides of it. On the approach to the cone/pole they might be a little wide (though on the correct lead and looking in the correct direction already) and then they’re really tight on the backside of the cone/pole and remain tight on the departure side. I think I might be pushing them out a little on the approach side, so I need to correct that.
What side(s) are we supposed to concentrate most on getting them to turn tight around? Approach, back-side, and/or departure? I’m fairly certain I’ve gathered that there’s more to it than just a general tightness, but of course I might be incorrect thinking that. I know you want them looking and feet turned in the correct direction before they jump (I haven’t added bars yet though, too early in the training) but if Im thinking correctly then you concentrate on approach/back-side or back-side/departure more-so then just generally staying tight?
Also, do you prefer to train on a jump wing or just a jump standard/pole when a dog is first starting?
I am hoping to get my hands on several of your DVDs through a rental place, but I’m asuming it’ll take a little bit before they’re available for me to rent. First up will be “cik/cap”, “ready, steady, go!”, & “tricks for balance, conditioning & strength”.
Thank you 🙂
Departure is even more important as the approach, but I like them tight all the way, that’s why I do tons of multi-wraps as those promote tightness more as sends. I use a pole first and then switch to wings as we have no wingless jumps in Europe 🙂
hi silvia -- not sure where to post this -- i am auditing handling 2 right now, after 2 rc and 2 foundation classes, waiting for good weather and training time….. miss being in an active class but am keeping my eye on your posts. i notice some talk of bouncing and wonder if we didn’t discuss that or maybe somehow i missed it? would you be willing to tell me what / when to use bouncing, where it is introduced and used? thanks! terri
You mean the conversation with Emi on the bars? The best is to just post there. I mostly use bouncing to work on strength for the take off and to “force” them into different take off spots (if you change the distance). It also allows me to notice and stop for knocked bars immediately, so I often do it with Bi who has a tendency to knock bars when jumping from too close (in straight lines, never on cik&cap) -- and pretty much never with the others…
Hi Silvia!
Can you please tell me what the “walking in boxes” are for? :o)
In your puppy-school video on youtube :o)
-Michelle
It’s home-made cavaletti 🙂 Great for hind feet awareness!
Hi everybody and Silvia,
Just wanted to say: this sunday my aussie won a course scoring an amazing time, beating BCs by about 2 seconds thanks to her tight turns. “Cik&Cap” rock! LOL!
Marie
Wow, that’s really cool to win by 2s!!! Do you have a video, sounds like a really great run!? -- And I’m sure there are many more to come!!!
Well, unfortunately, this is the one trial I chose to forget my camcorder at home… 😛 But I am thinking of editing a “before/after Cik&Cap” video of Ever showing some of our best turns (even if I screwed up the run afterwards! LOL!). I will definitely post it here as soon as it’s done!
Thanks again!
Love frome France,
Marie
Cool, looking forward to see that!!!
Hi Silvia,
I’ve been reading through this thread and saw where you commented that tailess dogs can have a different style of cik/cap, what would the differences be? Would it impact how you train it? I’m currently training it with my boxer who is docked (not by my choice, she was without a tail when I rescued her 🙁 )
Thanks 🙂
Sabrina
I just let them choose their own style. Usually, docked dogs will wrap/band their backs less and instead throw the hips in one or another direction over the bar -- what is a perfectly good style too!
Great thanks for that Silvia!
interesting reading this as I have a Springer who is also docked. Next one wont be so I will be interested to see different styles with my next one!!
Hi Silvia,
I purchased the cik and cap download and love it. We’ve been working on it for a few weeks and it’s beautiful to see my BC know a turn is coming even when she is so far ahead of me.
A couple of questions: is the difference between cik/cap and left/right commands the amount of collection needed? So cik/cap is collection, and left/right is always extension? And I’m guessing you don’t train cik/cap and left/right at the same time? Seems like that would be confusing.
Thanks again for the video?
Jen
Great! And yes, cik&cap is for collecting and left&right for extension. I do train it more or less at the same time (maybe not the same session at the beginning) -- but then, I’m never worried about confusion. I think it’s an important step towards full understanding 🙂
Hi Silvia!
I’ve watched your cik/cap DVD and find it extremely informative! My two 20″ girls our now “wrapping” poles and wings with a bar height of about 6″-8″ now. I think they’re both doing really well, but I’ve noticed that almost any time that I send them to wrap the jump when I “pull” them after the jump that come off wide. I think my pull must be pushing them out since every time I front cross after the jump they stay extremely tight or if I run perpendicular from the jump like you teach us to do then they also remain REALLY tight. I’m only having issues with the pulls. We’re not really sequencing any cik/caps yet but are mostly figure-8-ing between two jumps, sometimes with wings, sometimes without. Occasionally we’ll take a tunnel or a straight jump just to build maximum speed coming to the pole/wing that we’ll be “wrapping” but even with speed they remain tight unless I pull them after/through the jump.
Even when I am only working the one jump if I pull them through/after the jump then they’ll come off extended and wide. It feels like when I pull that my motion or body language is conflicting with the collection needed to wrap tightly. Do you have any advice? I think either I’ve missed something in the foundation training, my handling is conflicting with the “wrap” cue, or maybe a “wrap” shouldn’t be used when pulling (because maybe pulls require more extension?)? I haven’t figured out if it’s even possible to practice multi-wraps coming from a pull either so I’m just confused with these pulls. Everything else is looking wonderful though! Any advise you can offer will be greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
Yes, a pull as such certainly doesn’t cue that much collection as front cross does -- that’s why front-blind cross (when you start a front cross but then change your mind and finish it with a blind so that the dog stays on the same hand as before) got so popular for cases where you don’t want to cross, but don’t want to pull either. Of course, it’s important you can get collection with a verbal + a pull too, so definitely keep practising and reward the tightest tries, but also my dogs won’t be that tight in that situation as when I can use front.
Thank you! That makes sense and helps me feel better about where we are in the training process. I will definitely be looking for the tightest tries to reward. Also, I have never seen or heard of a front-blind cross so that is interesting. Either that was before my time (I’ve only been training/competing for the last 2-3 years) or I just haven’t been around enough to see it :p
Thanks again!
It’s not that popular in US as it is in Europe 🙂 You can see it at 0:57 of this video for example:
Thank you 🙂 Yesterday I went out and tried some Front-Blind crosses vs pulling. They definitely help my girls to stay very tight and I thought they worked very well in that sense. On the other hand they felt completely foreign/odd to me and so I’m sure I was not nearly as fluid or efficient with them as others are. I haven’t had a chance to watch the video you posted, but that is very nice and thoughtful of you to post it. I will have to wait until I’m staying somewhere with better download limits, but am excited to see a Front-Blind cross in action 🙂 I will probably continue experimenting with the cross, but will also make certain to keep trying for tighter pulls and rewarding the best tries.
Thank you 🙂
Just got to watch the video you posted here (with the front-blind cross) and it is so neat to see all the places on course where cik/cap can be used. Not to mention I watched the video a few more times just to watch your handling and Bu’s running which are simply beyond amazing. Thank you for always being willing to take the time to answer questions and post suggestions/advice.
I also wanted to post that my 20″ girls are now sequencing with cik/cap on lowered bars (8″-10″ I think) though they have been multi-wrapping and figure-8ing (between two jumps) bars at about 13″-15″. It is quite exciting to start using cik/cap on sequences and to be able to see the difference in results!