O.k., time for your first homework!
1. find a way to make your dog run as fast as he can, tape him from the side and study his striding in slow motion or even frame by frame: how far apart his hind feet are, how far forward hind feet reach over front feet, how long and high the stride is, how his back look like and where his head is: many people think you want low head for running contacts, but in fact, you want the head look exactly the same as when running full speed in the fields 🙂
2. have a dog run over the plank, tape him from the side and compare it with the video above - you can tape it at an angle you're currently at. If you're just starting, restrain the dog before your plank, carpet or whatever you're using, throw a toy and release. Slowly bring the dog further away from the plank to really have them come to the plank with full speed. You don't need to overdo the distance, especially if you have long plank/carpet, as finding the plank could be problematic or the dog before you add some more height on it. Mark anything that looks like running in the fields from the first video, jackpot when feet are close to the end of a plank/carpet. Don't forget to click it or at least mark it with your voice! I prefer clicking, but you can also first use a voice and start clicking later, when you know your dog's stride better and can predict it better.
As we already discussed in comments before, we're for now throwing a toy in advance, letting the dog chase it, in order to get full speed. So yes, the dog is rewarded every time with a ball - so make sure that you really make the best tries even more special, use excitement in your voice, a play of tug on his favourite toy or food if that's his real preference - in short: make a party about the really good ones and don't worry about not so good ones - just throw that ball again! 🙂
3. to make it easier for the dog to understand what you're clicking for on that plank, we'll be teaching some tricks that are the best to help them understand how to use their feet and that you might be clicking them for using them. The two things you will try this time is cavaletti work - walking the dog over drawers or boxes on the floor - and teaching the dog to step with front feet on an object and clicking for any movements of hind feet: the final goal is a full circle in both directions, but first click even for just a weight shift and then go from there.
Post a video with all 3 assignments, first two also in slow motion please! This is a good check-up for those who are already running their dogs on a raised plank and a good stride-study that will help you see and mark the correct striding better for those just starting.
Also, read through the comments and see the videos in introduction page, you can learn a lot through videos and comments of others. Once you see your dog is running nicely, with an even stride, hind feet separation and hind feet reaching further from front feet (see discussion and video on that we had in comments!), you can put a brick or something under one end of the plank and have them run over slightly elevated plank - I'll tell you when you're ready based on the videos you'll send.
Left front foot just left the ground, hind feet reaching forward - this is what I mean by hind feet reaching over where the front feet were.
And this is what I mean by hind feet separation: hind feet hitting two different spots as far apart as possible (vs. staying parallel, hitting the same spot).
I think (and hope) that the jumping-problem may be gone, for now atleast. All the sudden it was gone! Running after the frisbee was also a great idea but I just am soooo bad at it! I think I would need to go an extra course for that, I did’t even manage on the ground. My husband actually had to throw for the video.
The video is from todays session (I do around one per day) and it is not the best one the last days. The last 4 sessions she didn’t have any crazy jumps (since I threw well) but on the video from today there are two of them (where I threw bad). The rest of the video is representative for the sessions now.
My concerns are:
1. Will it later be possible to fade the ball away with her since she is sooo sensible to when and how I throw? I suppose it is possible (since she is a smart little dog 🙂 ), but I sometimes wonder how that will be done.
2. Am I sometimes to hard about the reward? In the video I tell which I jackpotted and which I only gave a small reward for. I have noticed that I judge her rather by the running style than the hindfeet seperation. If she runs with even strides and without bouncing I jackpot. But do you think I should also have jackpotted those runs in the video where I only gave her a small reward?
Thanks!
Yeah, it’s definitely better, but she is actually still somewhat leapy… I think you jackpotted the right ones, but I wouldn’t reward 6 at all, she is deep, but leaving sooo much up in the air again… For the frisbee, she runs less leapy and stretches more, I think I would do LOTS of that. I’m terrible at throwing too, but don’t worry, just keep trying, I’m sure she won’t mind 🙂 Where do you live? Can you walk her daily and let her run full speed off leash, chasing a frisbee and similar? I think that would help a ton with her running style.
Also, why don’t you throw somewhat earlier, I think we got the best tries that way last time? And that’s also how we’re planning to fade the toy: throwing earlier&earlier to eventually have them run to a stationary toy and then go from there.
Yes, 6 wasn’t that good. I think I sometimes judge it wrong. I don’t use a clicker since I was too often clicking wrong and then it was no way to change it. I use my voice instead. If I think it was a Jackpot I talk excited all the way from the contact zone until she comes back to me to get the jackpot. If I see a bad run I often start by saying “yees…” and then stop as soon as I see it wasn’t that good and just give her a small treat when she comes. For large jumps I don’t reward or say anything, they are also veeeeery easy to see.
Oki, I will do more frisbee throwing, and hopefully get better too. Yeah, she really won’t mind at all! 🙂
I try to make her run off leash one hour once per day mostly on a large field. There I always try to make her run full speed (mostly because I love to watch it!). But I can’t always do it (since I have to take my 2 little children along and some days that just doesn’t work out). But I will try to use the frisbee at those walks too.
It is true that she did better on late releases. I don’t know why I changed to early releases. Probably it started to work and I just contiuned. I was sooo relieved that she didn’t jump all the time. I can start to release her late so it will also be easier to fade the toy then. I see the logic.
Thanks a lot Silvia!
Yeah, you really can’t mis the big jumps with her! 🙂 I hope we get rid of those soon! I think frisbee will help a lot, maybe you even learn to throw that well that you can one day use it for plank work! -- I can’t throw that well, but have a couple of students who are using it, it works great.
Hi Silvia and Classmates,
Here we are, after two weeks RC training, not feeling that crazy anymore! 😉 The first week I was in doubt, but this last week… Yes I can see it! Just like you said that I would. I got some help from my husband and did not bother about the clicker anymore and it seems to have payed off. Rudy was watching from the side, I was watching from the back and we both “marked” with our voices. We noticed that we both interpreted the good one’s and the bad one’s the same. The fact that we saw on the video’s that Keen seemed to have nice separated hind legs 100% of the time, as you confirmed, made it easier to focus on her placement on the plank. During that second week I really gained confidence. I’ll post the last two sessions (every try is in the video). But to start I’ll add two tries from a week ago. We really see progress! In speed and in the number of low hits. It already looks like she does “something” to hit the board low. Her stride seems to have changed. Or are we dreaming? I also added the first go we had at the cavalettis and some “hind leg work”. Oh yes, the clicker came out of my pocket again the last session. I had the feeling I was marking much better now, sometimes still a bot late maybe.
I’m really curious of your findings!
It sure looks great!!! I think you’re ready to add some height, just support the plank well on several places as it looks very bouncy. Also, just to be sure she is not cuing from your poles, you could maybe only use them to mark the beginning of the plank and not the end anymore? -- Just to be sure we don’t get in trouble later on. I think staying on won’t be problematic anymore, so… Great job!
Hi Silvia,
You were right… Keen was definitely cuing from the poles! I took them away and our nice running contacts were falling apart. The thing is, they were not only cuing Keen but also myself. My throwing is terrible now! I taped it but did not edit it yet. Do you think it is a good idea to gradually get rid of them by placing them more and more aside? Or just take them away and learn to throw again? 😉
Yes, if it affected the running so much, then let’s do it gradually, placing them further and further apart.
Sylvia, Kris and Devo here. Yes we do have a DW ramp to use. Do you want us to try it with the tunnel?
Yes, I think that will give us an answer what are those leaps about.
Since both the plank and DW ramp are the same length, is there a difference between using either one, other than slats?
Oh sorry, it looked shorter to me… Ignore my suggestion then 🙂
Continued plank work today. Devo’s strides are good on the raised plank (about 6″) if I restrain throw release, and down, throw and release. She is fine if I’m in front of her throwing. She is fine rounding a stantion. She is NOT fine coming out of the tunnel. Still big leaps! Should I just continue running without the tunnel for now? Raise plank or stay put?
Thank you!!
You don’t need to use a tunnel if that makes her striding worse -- just use a stantion instead. If that constantly gives you nice hits, you can raise it some more, we’ll start working on adjusting stride once they can see the end of a plank better (because of more angle).
Just wanted to check in with you with our latest work to see if we’re still on track. Thank you!
Yes, it’s going well, just pay attention you’re not rewarding any up-in-the-air movement -- first two tries were somewhat “up-in-the-air”.
Well, they all looked up in the air to me! Should I continue at this height until I have more running and not leaping? Thank you!
Yes, stay at this height for some more and send another video after some more sessions on that height.
Hi, Sylvia. I sure don’t want to post each session, but after reading what’s next for lesson 2 and up in the air being addressed, I thought I’d post these and see if it’s any better. I was training with others tonight so had the opportunity to set up different plank situations. I really liked using the double wide raised plank and think I only saw one up in the air stride. The single raised plank also seemed better with one or two leaps.My thought is to continue with both double wide and single wide at this height. Is it OK to keep raising the double wide plank then transfer to a single plank? Thank you.
Yes, that’s very good again! I would use double planks whenever you have an option to, it’s perfectly o.k. to work on double width for whole lesson 2.
Finally, here are my homework videos. I’ve been traveling a lot for work but I’m determined to keep up with the class. I’m also going to upload a video of our most recent DW session on the other page. I would love feedback on how to proceed. I am seeing that if Snaf drives long over the apex on the down ramp, she does a beautiful contact. If she does not, she is more inclined to leap. I want advice on how to extend that specific stride, especially as I can’t “see” it while I’m running with her. Today I played around with stride regulators, which worked great, but I know from past experience that she doesn’t generalize to when the regulators are absent.
Wow, she moves beautifully! Cavaletti are going well too and pivoting, try standing still, clicking for any kind of hind feet movement and shape from there. Otherwise, they get too depended on movement and if you move, they don’t think about hind feet that much.
In your dog-walk videos, I see she will sometimes actually shorten a stride to put front foot in when hind feet are too high. It’s good she can still save the situation when too high, but ideally, she should be striding more naturally as it’s easier to maintain the behaviour then. Pretty much all dogs learn to fly over the apex, but at this height, the apex is so unnoticeable that I can’t blame her for not consistently doing it. I think you’ll get it automatically with more height. I never trained RC with a lowered dog-walk, so I can’t tell you when that will happen, but I’m sure the apex needs to look more like an apex. To get this, would I would actually suggest, is normal height dog-walk with a plank at the end to make less angle at the exit -- see Nancy and Rev for example, they have this setting and that’s what I used for my puppy. She is significantly smaller as Snaf, but flies over apex nicely, does one more stride and is in. Do just the plank first, then move her further back and see what you get. Try using something shorter as additional plank as normal dog-walk ramp length will make the whole thing too long for her to be in with two strides.
Thanks for the feedback. I tried for two sessions to not move on the pivoting work but then she started offering back and forth movements or balancing with all four feet on the pedestal! Then it deteriorated into barking fests. She not the most perceptive dog I’ve ever trained -- she doesn’t easily pick up on exactly what aspect of her behavior produces reinforcement.
I saw that extra plank setup in a previous video. What type of plank should I get for that? I assume it would need to be as thick as a regular DW ramp — how long should it be? I’ll give it a shot. Thanks!
The plank I use for that is 3m (vs. 4m dog-walk ramp), the same width as a dog-walk, but much thinner -- so I need to support it well on two places so that it doesn’t bounce. It can take quite a few sessions for them to discover the beauties of flying over the apex, so don’t give up too soon.
Being slow figuring out what you’re clicking with tricks usually makes understanding of running contacts slower too… But I’m sure we’ll get there this time! 🙂
Hi Silvia, we did the cavaletti and the pivoting. Fine still runs over a wide, thin planket. We needed some training sessions to set up the situation -- throw a ball in a nice line, send her for cik and telling her that retrieving a ball is as much fun as chewing it. The next video we will have one run in normal tempo and slow motion in a row -- sorry for that. We clicked every run here, I`m still not able to really jackpot one or another. I hope that I will learn to throw a ball, to look at her feet, to click and than sometimes jackpotting one of the runs at one time.
Looks good! I would jackpot 3:40, 4:11, 5:04, 6:55. See our discussion with Inge on how to learn to see it -- a helper can help a lot! It doesn’t matter in which order you put slow motion runs. But it’s very much appreciated if you cut out the parts when the dog is not on the plank and number it, maybe even write next to it what you think was good and what you think it wasn’t -- just to check if we have the same opinion. Time to raise a plank a little!
Thank you. We will cut the video better -- less butt more dog…..
Is it really time to raise the plank already or should Fine run over a narrow but flat plank before? This plank is a rather wide one.
Wider is better, so just raise this one and support it well so that it doesn’t bounce.
Hi there, i upgraded my account this morning. Please can i ask if i should just send video of slow mo, or the running then slow mo. Thanks kindly
Oh, it’s as you want, for running part of the homework, slow motion is actually enough.
Hi there i am going to try see if i can upload a short video i did today and then i will know how this works to carry on. Hope this works!
Ok so it seems i need some help please on how to upload videos please. Thank you.
Well, you need to upload it on YouTube and then just post a link here…
Hi there ok i try again. Hope it works this time.
Hi there i sure hope it works this time.
I fixed your link -- YouTube is giving you wrong share link, the correct form is httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v= and then the letters you copy from URL link -- in your case EXNY6nuXEvM -- just to know for next time.
Your plank work sure looks great! Definitely time to raise it a little! Great job!!!
Thank you, i have had a bad week so far, but hope to get going again tomorrow and will try 1 brick to start raising it on 1 end. so far my set up is, i have been sending her around a cone ( Tip and Tuck, My funny words) about 7 m back and she tight turns and races back to the plank and i am throughing the ball about 15 away for her to go get. is my understanding ok for where we should be for now and we keep this the same as we raise it, in other words find a good place to start her from so she hits deep each time. Can i ask are the hits low enough in the video or should i be looking at lower for long turn? Thank you, love this course and puppy class very much, i hope to get going with those exercises too tomorrow. thank you.
Of course, her hits on tech video were perfect! Doesn’t get lower than that! 🙂 So yes, just keep working the same thing with some more height. We’ll add more challenges in next lesson, but we need some more height first -- and plenty of nice, low hits to jackpot!