O.k., time for your first homework!
1. find a way to make your dog run as fast as he can, tape him from the side and study his striding in slow motion or even frame by frame: how far apart his hind feet are, how far forward hind feet reach over front feet, how long and high the stride is, how his back look like and where his head is: many people think you want low head for running contacts, but in fact, you want the head look exactly the same as when running full speed in the fields 🙂
2. have a dog run over the plank, tape him from the side and compare it with the video above - you can tape it at an angle you're currently at. If you're just starting, restrain the dog before your plank, carpet or whatever you're using, throw a toy and release. Slowly bring the dog further away from the plank to really have them come to the plank with full speed. You don't need to overdo the distance, especially if you have long plank/carpet, as finding the plank could be problematic or the dog before you add some more height on it. Mark anything that looks like running in the fields from the first video, jackpot when feet are close to the end of a plank/carpet. Don't forget to click it or at least mark it with your voice! I prefer clicking, but you can also first use a voice and start clicking later, when you know your dog's stride better and can predict it better.
As we already discussed in comments before, we're for now throwing a toy in advance, letting the dog chase it, in order to get full speed. So yes, the dog is rewarded every time with a ball - so make sure that you really make the best tries even more special, use excitement in your voice, a play of tug on his favourite toy or food if that's his real preference - in short: make a party about the really good ones and don't worry about not so good ones - just throw that ball again! 🙂
3. to make it easier for the dog to understand what you're clicking for on that plank, we'll be teaching some tricks that are the best to help them understand how to use their feet and that you might be clicking them for using them. The two things you will try this time is cavaletti work - walking the dog over drawers or boxes on the floor - and teaching the dog to step with front feet on an object and clicking for any movements of hind feet: the final goal is a full circle in both directions, but first click even for just a weight shift and then go from there.
Post a video with all 3 assignments, first two also in slow motion please! This is a good check-up for those who are already running their dogs on a raised plank and a good stride-study that will help you see and mark the correct striding better for those just starting.
Also, read through the comments and see the videos in introduction page, you can learn a lot through videos and comments of others. Once you see your dog is running nicely, with an even stride, hind feet separation and hind feet reaching further from front feet (see discussion and video on that we had in comments!), you can put a brick or something under one end of the plank and have them run over slightly elevated plank - I'll tell you when you're ready based on the videos you'll send.
Left front foot just left the ground, hind feet reaching forward - this is what I mean by hind feet reaching over where the front feet were.
And this is what I mean by hind feet separation: hind feet hitting two different spots as far apart as possible (vs. staying parallel, hitting the same spot).
Here is my first homework video with Duncan. Sorry for the late posting, we had a slow start due to an injury, but all is good now. We’ve done some previous work on the flat board, but this was the first session where I threw the ball instead of sending him out to food. I was pleasantly surprised at how many times he stayed on the board all the way and didn’t jump. I forgot to note in the video which attempts I thought were good, so will do that on the next post. He had several nice deep contacts scattered between several other ‘flying Dunkies’, where he clears the entire contact. He’s had a tendency to bound like a rabbit off the end, but I followed your suggestions and just jackpotted the ones where I saw his feet touch. Seems to be working and I’m excited to try again! I love the speed he’s showing me with the ball, too! First time posting video, hope it works.
Yeah, he gets somewhat bouncy sometimes, like when approaching the ball of your free running video. Meaning that you need to make sure to always throw a ball far enough! Some tries were really great and on the others, it looked to me like he found too difficult to stay on and leaped off from that reason. That’s why I prefer starting on something wider, at this stage it really doesn’t matter if you use a carpet or a plank. Then you can really focus on a form of running vs. just staying on the plank. Well, the important thing is that we’re getting some really nice tries that we can jackpot, now we just need to get rid of the leaps and then we’re ready for the next height. I think we’ll get there faster with a carpet or wider board, but it’s up to you.
Somehow, I got a feeling many people think the important thing is to get to that narrow plank. It’s not. None of my dogs never ran on a narrow flat board, I’m way too lazy trainer to try to get that 🙂 The important part is to get the running on flat and then with more and more angle. Once you have enough angle, narrow plank will not be an issue anymore. Ever saw a dog striding off from a dog-walk? Probably not, so I definitely recommend a carpet, wide plank (or two planks side to side) or poles, otherwise you’re just wasting time on something that is not important at all
Anyway, a really cool dog, great speed and great job with tricks! Now just make that plank work somewhat easier for him so that we can then go to the next step.
I can definitely put out something wider, and will keep working on it. Thanks!
We are working on the plank every day. And i think that todays traing was the best until now.
I was starting Zushi 2 meters from the plank. My focus was on no jumps up in the air. After 5 -- 7 repetition i was fokusing more on where the hind legs were hitting the white zone.
After seeing the video i could se some mistakes in my clicking 😉
But it is difficult to stand behind and se where the dog is hitting. And Zushi can’t stay.
Yeap, some are great! Still some up in the air movement at the beginning, I also didn’t like 6 too much. But I like 9, why didn’t you click 9? With the rest, I agree, I would also jackpot tries like 15 and 17. Did you try sending her to the tunnel or cik/cap first, that would allow you to stand closer even without the stay?
I was trying to send her to a tunnel and doing some cik and cap before the plank, but it was there the jumps up in the air began. And therefore i am sending her from the spot 2 meters from the plank now. To avoid the jumping.
It was a mistake not to click at 9.
I was thinking that i would go back to do the cik and cap before the plank, when we has got some good sessions without jumping up in the air.
Right, I forgot. O.k., let’s do as you suggest, to check if that really was the reason.
Hi! I have finally finished editing the first part of the homework assignment. (Video of running on the ground and on the lowered DW).
I will get the other part done this week!
Here’s Speck.
And in case you want to watch this one, here’s the same thing with my younger dog (she’s not taking the class).
A tip for editing next time: please cut out all the parts when all I can see is a plank. It’s not very interesting to see the plank in slow motion! To be able to say some more, I would also appreciate to see bigger % of the dog-walk, at least whole down ramp.
I have another session that I edited already that has a different angle. I will post that when I get home. And yes, will make sure I get a bigger angle next time. It’s new software and still learning it. 😉
Ok, this is a session from May 6, with a different angle. Sorry, no slow mo (or perhaps that’s a good thing ;-).
I will be filming again tomorrow and will have the rest of the assignment up this weekend.
Oh, it’s good to see some more! 🙂 You’re a little late with marking his performance, but he obviously already has some understanding. -- Meaning that it’s definitely time to start changing his starting point! Try the tunnel to a dog-walk and a wrap on a jump in somewhat different places, that will also give you a more realistic picture. For example: if I start Bi as you start him, she might actually do 5 strides on a dog-walk… But when she comes from a tunnel, she will do it in 3 strides…
But you’re definitely getting a nice % of nice hits, so if it goes well also when starting from a tunnel or a jump, you can go to the next height.
Hi, Silvia.
Ive had a few sessions with Callie and Da Vinci and will do a few more before putting together a video. Throwing the toy acurately continues to be challenging for me. My question is if you think I could try the stationary toy with Callie. She is extremely toy motivated and would drive to it. I don’t know if she will run as fast. Do you think I should try it or is there another reason to wait until we get to that step in class?
Sure, you can try it, tape it and then compare to see if she runs equally fast. If yes, then it’s perfectly o.k. to use a stationary toy!
Glance and I have been doing some experimenting with different set ups, trying to find the one that will best allow him to stride deeply into the yellow and allow me to reward heavily and frequently. Here is our session from yesterday on a lowered dogwalk (16”).
Can I stay working here for a while, or would you suggest a full dogwalk with a plank, to encourage jumping the apex more? Does it seem that he is shortening his stride toward the end?
I’m not sure we want him to fly over the apex 🙂 He doesn’t have room for another stride then, with his length of stride. His best hits are when he doesn’t fly over the apex, but hits the down ramp with hind feet first, then with front feet above the contact and hind feet in the middle of the contact. When he flies over the apex, like in 4, we get one front foot very high and hind feet on the ground already. So for him, I would just keep this setting.
Thank you SO much Silvia! I had noticed his best strides were as you said, when his rear feet hit down ramp first. I don’t think I have ever seen a full running dogwalk where a dog strides that way, it seems to me that the ones I have seen the dogs are always striding over the apex- even the large dogs. So, I assumed when the dogwalk was raised Glance would do the same. Do you think not? You think he can keep this striding even on a full dogwalk when the time comes? Or should I just not worry about it now? I have been searching for video of dogs doing nice running dogwalks with such a stride and cannot seem to find anything on the internet- just hoping to visualize what it might look like….
Bi does that on a full dog-walk, I will post a video (when I remember to also tape Le to include a smaller dog too) -- if she flies over the apex, then she hits with front feet well above the contact and usually one hind foot in on 4m down-ramp -- and both with shorter down ramps. When she also fits hind feet at the top of a down ramp, like Glance does, that gives me deeper hind feet also on 4m ramps. She only does two strides on a down ramp on turns, she has too long stride to fit two if running full speed. BTW, anyone -- what are the rules for length of a down ramp in US? Some of your down ramps look shorter as ours…
Anyway, I don’t think his stride will be any shorter on a full dog-walk, so he might keep that style -- but yes, don’t worry about it, it’s on him to figure out how to meet the criteria.
For USDAA the down ramp is 12′ long and 11″ -- 12″ wide. The height or ascent angle is 48″ -- 54″ and the contact zone is 36″. For AKC the specs are very similar- 12′ long and 12″ wide…height 48″ but the contact zone is 42″ long.
I’d love to see video of Bi’s dogwalk!!
I guess US down ramps would convert to 3.65 meters.
Yeap -- that’s too short for FCI dog-walk. Maybe Bi could do US dog-walk in 2 steps if she does mine that is 4m in 3 🙂 🙂 🙂
That would be a sight to see!! 🙂 🙂 🙂
Ah, so it is indeed shorter! Here, the down ramp is min. 3,80m, max. 4.10m (13.5 feet). With shorter striding dogs, it doesn’t make much difference, I only learned about that with Bi as for her, the best striding is what Glance is doing if the ramp is 4m or more, but on shorter ones, she only hits the down ramp a little above and in the contact. Quite some math to do for the wild child! 🙂
Wow, I never knew that FCI was longer! Very interesting…..amazing that you could notice from the videos.
That must be difficult for US people with running DWs to tryout for FCI world team or compete internationally. One and a half feet would be a significant adjustment I think- and of course that would be 4.5 feet overall difference of DW length, right?
Yeah, I was guessing it’s probably not US BCs having longer strides but rather a dog-walk being shorter 🙂 It can be a problem switching to longer dog-walks yes. That’s why I have a longer one -- going to shorter one is easy. 🙂 But I’ve heard FCI is changing length next year to something more like US measurements, not sure why as it will only cause problems, all clubs that put up trials will need to change the equipement, it’s stupid…
Looks good! Just support that plank better, it’s very bouncy. He is sure RUNNING now and with that stride length, it’s good he has the whole dog-walk to work on it. I do see some adjustments at the second apex, but that’s good and normal -- it’s that stride they need to adjust in order to then take the next one from the contact. Seems like he already has some understanding about that, but of course, needs some more experience to always meet the criteria. At this stage, still jackpot the best hits (like 2 and 3) and stop rewarding high hits (like 1, 8, 10)
Thanks again Silvia!! I will steady the plank and also increase my criteria. I had rewarded 1 & 10. I did not reward 8. Thanks again for your wonderful feedback- we are having so much fun!
Hi Silvia, I was watching the videos again and again… This is the last video again, in the repetición before number 22, Acqua looks like one front leg slipped at the begining of the plank, and I watched that few times in other videos and maybe 2 or 3 times The plank was bouncy but just a little bit.
Do you think it will be good if I put another plank at the beginig doing like an a-frame? Do you understand wath I mean?
Thank you, I’m a little sad 🙁
Yeah, at this height, you could also do something like an A-frame. Once it gets higher though, A-frame shape usually gives you too much flying over the apex, so something like a mini dog-walk would be better.
Do you have a video of her up-in-the-air tries?
This is the video with the tries after may 5, that day I posted 2 videos one with cavaletti work and pivoting and another one with flat plank and raised plank, that trainning session was good, I don´t know what happen in this one 🙁
But I don’t see any up-in-the-air movement? Her striding is somewhat off, but that’s nothing to worry about, you are still getting some perfect hits that you can jackpot and the bad ones, just don’t click! It’s o.k. to have some bad tries too, for them to learn the difference. If you could build something like a mini dog-walk or put a plank on a bench (covered with something not-slippery) and have her jump on a bench to then have longer way to run, that would give ger more room to adjust the striding, so you can try that. But again, this is nothing to worry, take this as an opportunity to show her adjusting the stride when necessary is important,
thank you, I will try 🙂
Hi Silvia,
As you suggested, after my lesson 1 video post, I kept running Beatrice on the long carpet for about a week and then moved to a board on the carpet. The wide board I had resulted in terrible disruption of her stride and leaping. So I traded it out for this 30 cm wide by 3.6 meter long slightly elevated board. Mostly I see her running. When she goes off the board it is usually because I have thrown badly. Sometimes when she enters the board so that she hits a stride the middle, she elongates to leap off the end instead of running through. I have been experimenting with the best distance for her release point and think I have found what gives her the best striding.
Could you comment on this video and suggest what my next step should be?
Thank you,
Heidi
Cool! She definitely runs less up in the air and more forward now! 🙂 And even with you behind! GREAT job!!! Keep working that way, with a plank raised some more now, not changing anything else but height for now -- you’ll get more challenges to play with in next lesson, but we need some more height first so that the end of the plank gets more obvious (because of an angle).
Awesome! we get to raise the board. Will do. Thanks. Heidi
Hi again. 🙂 Sorry it’s taken me so long to post. I’ll try to post Oliver’s homework in the next couple days. I also apologize Sage’s video is a tad over 5 min. Sage was previously running the plank at full height but I haven’t worked on it in about a month and Sage had been hitting higher than I would like so I decided to go all the way back down then hopefully raise it back up farely quickly. Also, how does her pivoting look? I tried to retrain her heeling using your method but I struggled because she acts like she’s incapable of pivoting while looking at me. I tried to show this in the video. What do you think? Thanks!
Plank work looks good! She maybe isn’t full extended as she is trying to fit in 2 strides, but that’s o.k., they need to be able to adjust the stride to take the last one from the very end. The length of a dog-walk will give her even more room to do so, the important thing is to have the understanding -- and it looks like she has that.
Cavaletti look good too and for pivoting, it’s funny, I have a Golden in my puppy class with the same problem. But I think it will go away once there is no target to pay attention to -- already flat target could make it better and once she completely switches to targeting your leg vs. targeting the object, I think looking down will go away completely. However, pay attention to how you stand next to the target: you sometimes stand so that her front feet are too far ahead and as a consequence, her hind end is swinging out. You need to stand so that she is not standing in front of you with her paws, but more about where your heels are, with a shoulder at the side of your knee, not in front and her rear end completely straight -- hope that explanation makes sense?
Yeah, I think so. I need to stand parallel to the target not behind it, right?
That’s really interesting I wonder if it has to do with Golden’s bodies. I have taken the target away and Sage still acts like she’s incapable of making eye contact while pivoting. She seems to really try too. If it helps shed any light on the problem Sage has a weak back and poor rear end/feet awareness. I didn’t know about all these wonderful body awareness tricks when I got her and I need to work on them.
One other thing. Earlier I meantioned Sage’s speed varies while on course. I want to clarify: That was an understatement. I began agility with Sage in a vary demotivating orginazation and that combined with Sage’s personality set us up for years of breaking bad habbits. She will completely shut down on me. Sometimes she walks course, sometimes fully extends to her huge stride and flies. She doesn’t live for agility and is about as far from a bc as they come. It’s my job to make agility fun and not overwork her. This really concerns me for consistentcy in running contacts. If it would helps I can post a video of a few runs. I’m sorry to take up so much time on this as I know it’s not the focus of this class.
Thanks 🙂
Exactly, you need to stand parallel to the target. Rear end awareness is definitely harder with bigger dogs, that’s why it’s even more important to work on it. I would keep working on pivoting without the target, maybe she will be able to keep eye contact once it becomes more automatic.
And yes, different speeds can affect the consistency of running contacts… It’s very common with sensitive dogs that even though they’re perfect in training, they run slower on new equipment and then miss the contact -- but that goes away with experience. Your problem is different, but can result in the same thing. Additional problem is she is a retrain so it’s actually very likely that her contacts won’t be perfect at the beginning. The good thing about running contacts, though, is that even if you don’t do anything about it and just keep competing, they get better. At the same time, I would of course work on her speed and motivation in general and I believe that all that together will at one point give you perfect contacts and full speed through the whole course. Can you see the trend, is she mostly faster now as she was before?
Ok thanks. 🙂 I’ll keep working on the pivoting without the target and let you know how it goes. I think you’re right. I need to be more patience and see if she figures it out with time.
I’m not sure if I understand your question but yes Sage is getting faster. It’s been and continues to be a long process though, full of ups and downs. Sage did struggle at our last few trials about a month ago but I think that was because she was plain burned out. We have the whole summer off now so that should help. I’m not to worried about missing a few contacts at the begining. I just hope she does ultimately get it, understand the running FULL SPEED that is. No point worring about unforseen problems though. Suprisingly, so far rc have been pretty straight-forward.
Good, if you can see the trend of her getting faster&faster, then it means you’re on the right track now. Running contacts will probably add some to the speed to, we just need to get them on a real dog walk at one point, considering that she is a retrain and that could be difficult step. The best would be if you could occasionally already train on a normal dog-walk, but with that plank on it. Do you have an option to do that?
Sorry I just saw this post. Yes, I do have access to a fully adjustable dogwalk and plank I can put on it though I don’t think the extra plank is full lenth. Is that a problem? I can use this dogwalk several times a week. Would you start now?
Yes, I would start as early as possible, probably simply with normal height dog-walk and a plank at the end. The extra plank doesn’t need to be full length.
Ok great. 😀 I’ll post a video once I try it.
I posted my videos accidentally on rc intoduction page, so I put the same videos also here.
We have had a lot of problems. He avoided running on the plank (mostly due my bad throws). The plank is too short but I haven’t find longer. Jack potting is very difficult because he runs with ball and is not interested in my toys. I try to use my voice anyway.
We haven’t got much really low hits or better hind feet separation. The good thing is that according the videos I did jack pot all good runs.
He run is quite bounchy and it looks like he would be jumping but there still is some hind feet separation. What do you think about his strides?
I also feel that his hind feet separation is better on the ground than on the plank.
Tha plank is 45 or 50 cm on this video. Now I am using maybe 80 cm wide plank.
session on 29th April
sessions 6th and 11th May
I do not see any progress
I already replied to where you posted it originally, so check there for a reply.