O.k., time for your first homework!
1. find a way to make your dog run as fast as he can, tape him from the side and study his striding in slow motion or even frame by frame: how far apart his hind feet are, how far forward hind feet reach over front feet, how long and high the stride is, how his back looks like and where his head is: many people think you want low head for running contacts, but in fact, you want the head look exactly the same as when running full speed in the fields 🙂
2. have a dog run over the plank, tape him from the side and compare it with the video above - tape it at the height you're currently at. If you're just starting, restrain the dog before your plank, carpet or whatever you're using, throw a toy and release. Slowly bring the dog further away from the plank to really have them come to the plank with full speed. Mark anything that looks like running in the fields from the first video, jackpot when feet are hitting at the end of a plank/carpet (where the contact will be), but reward anything that is running. Don't forget to click it or at least mark it with your voice! I prefer clicking, but you can also first use a voice and start clicking later, when you know your dog's stride better and can predict it better.
This is a good check-up for those who are already running their dogs on a raised plank and a good stride-study that will help you see and mark the correct striding better for those just starting. Once you see your dog is running nicely, with an even stride, hind feet separation and hind feet reaching further from front feet, you can put a brick or something under one end of the plank and have them run over slightly raised plank - I'll tell you when you're ready based on the videos you'll send.
And yes, we're for now throwing a toy in advance, letting the dog chase it, in order to get full speed. So yes, the dog is rewarded every time with a ball - so make sure that you really make the best tries even more special, use excitement in your voice, a play of tug on his favourite toy or food if that's his real preference - in short: make a party about the really good ones and don't worry about not so good ones - just throw that ball again! 🙂
3. to make it easier for the dog to understand what you're clicking for on that plank, we'll be teaching some tricks that are important to help them understand how to use their feet and that you might be clicking them for using them. The two things you will try this time is cavaletti work - walking the dog over drawers or boxes on the floor - and teaching the dog to step with front feet on an object and clicking for any movements of hind feet: the final goal is a full circle in both directions, but first click even for just a weight shift and then go from there.
Post a video with all 3 assignments, first two in slow motion please!!! - But PLEASE cut out all the parts where I can't see the dog: because seeing just the plank, and that is slow motion, is absolutely no fun - and you can't imagine how many planks in slow motion I saw by now!
Also, read all the comments and see as many videos as possible, you can learn A LOT through videos and comments of others, that's why we do it in a class form in a first place!
Two pictures showing what I mean by hind feet reach: hind feet must land further ahead from where front feet were:
Two pictures showing what I mean by hind feet separation: hind feet must be hitting two different spots as far apart as possible (vs. staying parallel, hitting the same spot).
To take the explanation of hind feet separation and reach forward even further, here is a discussion we had with a first class on it, this is my comment to those two videos:
Experimenting with a full low dogwalk
Experimenting with throwing his toy
My comment: he doesn’t run fast enough 
– That’s my answer to 90% of problems with running contacts, so you will probably hear that a lot in next few months Any BC, running full speed, is deep down the contact if doing two strides on a dog-walk ramp, period. Even my PyrShep who is 37cm (14.5″) does the down ramp in two hits and I even know a Papillon that is trying to, despite we would prefer him to do 3 hits Meaning that if a BC does 2 hits and is too high, he is not running enough. That’s some general info for everybody, I’m just using your videos to discuss this topic as they show some very nice tries and some “not running enough” tries.
On most tries, you can see his hind feet come just shortly more forward from where the front feet where. Normally, when the dog runs full speed, hind feet will land significantly further ahead from where front feet were – just like you can see in “experimenting with the toy” video at 1:16, 2:16 and 2:27 tries for example – those were very nice!!!
The faster the dog is moving, the further ahead from front feet hind feet will be landing and as a consequence, you will have MUCH bigger length covered as if hind feet hit where front feet were – meaning that if Bi’s front feet are above the contact, her first hind foot will be in the middle of the contact and the second one will be right at it’s bottom. - While if the dog’s hind feet only come to where front feet were, he is missing the contact in this situation - instead of getting a perfect one
That’s exactly why I always get suspicious when I hear people saying their dog is hitting with 4 feet. With a BC size dog, running full speed with good hind feet separation, it’s pretty much impossible to fit all 4 feet in. 3 is possible, but if they can fit all 4 feet in that small area, they don’t cover enough of an area and when they will be higher, all 4 feet will be out of the contact. Bi on the other hand is a typical example of the dog covering LOTS of an area, meaning that even if her front feet are landing in the middle of the down ramp (yeah, she desperately wants to do it in one hit), the second hind foot will be in the contact, as you can see in this video:
Complicated? Don't worry, it gets easier when you start to see the dog's stride 🙂
Hi Silvia and Classmates,
Zap’s DW and trick work. Zap is much stiffer going one way than the other.
At the show today Zap’s DW was the best it has been in public in a long time. I can’t thank you enough for that Silvia. We had a hard turn off the DW in the open course. It was the exact same sequence as the excellent course. I elected to take the off course jump straight ahead. Didn’t want to undo all the work that’s recently been done.
Should I continue with what I’ve been doing with Zap or change somethings?
Thanks.
Great! The trend is definitely good, the striding looks much better to me now. I think you can put a jump between the DW and a toy now and then slowly start to move it some for some extra challenges. It was a good idea to just go straight in a trial. Also, make sure you don’t stare at the contact too much in trials, it can put too much pressure on the dog and cause a miss. Try to just run and don’t even look at the contact, check how it was later on a video -- I know it’s hard, I like to see it too, but it can really be contra-productive. Great job with tricks too, just practice the weaker side some more.
Thanks Silvia. When you say “slowly start to move it” are you referring to the distance of the jump from the end of the DW but still on a straight line, or moving the jump slightly left and right of a straight line off the end of the DW?
I take it I should stay with a stationary toy after the jump at the end of the DW? Should the jump be at full height or slowly work up to full height?
It’s going to be hard not to stare at the contact at the shows. This is were friends will come in handy:)
Will continue to work on the tricks.
Thanks again.
Yes, for now keep a stationary toy after the jump straight after DW and later on, you can start moving the jump left and right some and do some rotations to get her used to the fact that there is not necessarily a jump straight ahead. For this whole process, I keep the jump very low as it’s there just to pull her forward. And I know it’s hard not to check the contact at trials, but they really usually do better when you don’t. 🙂
Help!
I placed the (2) 8′ 16″ planks end to end. Cayenne appears to be leapy at end. Do I need to adjust starting line? Or extend running planks 4′?
Once I added the third 8′ plank to make 24′ total and adjusted the sit stay starting line, she seemed to get her entry and exit contacts much better (except for the last run). Should I vary the approach distance or find one that works get good exit contacts first; then vary the approach distance and difficulty?
How can I eliminate the leapy exit? Go back to carpet for a while? With HUGE jackpot for hind feet in entry and exit contact?
I will work on creating 3 12′ planks ready. Is it the 8′ lengths throwing her off? How can she/I compensate for shorter plank length?
Great! She doesn’t look leapy to me at all, she is running nicely and equally, close to the ground (with an exception of 4:33 try of course 🙂 ), but overstrides the contact first because of how she gets to the planks, so yes, you need to adjust the distance for now to help her and have something to jackpot. I only start challenging them once I have done tons of jackpotting already AND have raised the plank some. So I would do some more sessions like this, helping her to hit and jackpot it and then raise it some, no challenges just yet.
Hi silvia,
i’ve attached some of her box work. i went for an open box because when I initialiiy tried with something turned upside down she would hit it so hard it would sometimes topple. since that Someone i suggested i just use an upturned plate/saucer so that it can’t tip: what do you think? She’s very fidgety: she does it then thinks she needs to go and find something else to do. part of it i think is my treating her away from the box so she’s learned to come towards me. do you think this is the reason and if so should i try and stay closer and treat from the hand. I don’t want to drop treats near her as this encourages her to use her nose which is a big enough distraction at the best of times.
thanks
Tracy
Great, love her intensity, she looks like lots of fun! I would recommend a perch that is heavy enough or has a wide enough base that it doesn’t topple. The box would be o.k. too, but as we’re also doing 4in the box trick, that would be too confusing, so I would keep the perch, but yes, definitely stay close enough that you can reward on it, from your hand. Try not to move around with her though and instead shape her to circle. How is her carpet work going?
I think we’re going alright. I was using the shorter mat and I noticed in our last session she was starting to slow towards the end. This was after i had jackpotted a couple of really good ones and then didn’t when she didn’t hit near the end. She then got near the end again and I jackpotted. she seemed to be slowing in an attemept to work out what she needed to do to get the jackpot. I’m sure once she has it nailed exactly what gets the jackpot the speed will start to come back. will try and post some more carpet work later.
Yeah, slowing down is a common problem with retrained dogs, they like to convert back to stopping… I definitely wouldn’t jackpot that as you’re training her to stop then and it doesn’t help with RC…
Hi Silvia,
Here’s some of ziva running on the shorter mat. I think when i stood forward of her and threw the toy she missed more. she seemed to put an extra stretch into these ones. I clicked on 2,3,5,6,7,10 & 13 for hitting near the end. I hope i’m getting this right.
Meant to say I moved round the perch as I’ve hit a stumbling block at about 180 degrees when she turns round. she’ll go out and spin round to see me but I can’t get her to go beyond this my herself. Any ideas n how to move this on?
Yeap, looks good. I wouldn’t click 5 and 6 though, I don’t like those extremely low touches as they look accidental. But she is running well, no slowing down. I think you could as well switch to a wide plank soon so that you can then raise it some if the switch goes well.
To get her turn all the way, always reward with her head turned away from you, in the direction that promotes an extra step in the direction she is going. The anticipation of a reward there will make it easier for her to take the eyes off of you and do a whole turn.
What width of a plank would you recommend? I will be taking my A frame inside for the winter soon which means taking it apart so I could run her over the full length of it flat: what do you think?
Thanks
Tracy
Sure, if it’s not too thick to create an edge with the ground, then you can use it. You could also try to fill the edge with some sand or something if there is one.
Finally had a rainy moment to capture Cayenne’s Lesson 1 Tricks -- Circle work -- used a variety of objects, locations & surfaces. I’m trying to reward hind footwork. She has always been ‘touchy’ with different surfaces (avoids with hind; explores with front). Suggestions for improvement? Ideas/tips for desensitizing hind feet?
Will start counter clockwise circle next. Do you place any verbal or non-verbal cues to this movement?
Ignore the background 2 Parson Russell Terriers (3 yrs & 4 yrs) who are voicing their feelings of being left out at the moment but are learning the same lessons. It’s very interesting training 3 dogs. Each has their own personality, incentives work/play ethic and attention span.
Not sure why new postings are being inserted in between Aug 26 postings. Shouldn’t new items be the last? I also noticed this with the previous items submitted this past weekend. Is there a way to fix Lesson 1 posting sequencing?
Yeah, not sure why this happened and how to fix it… Computers are sure strange sometimes…
It looks like she uses her hind feet pretty well to me! And what a nice balance! Great job! We’ll work on stepping back to different objects to to get them used to it. I don’t really name the pivoting at this point, I only put a name to it once I start using it for pivoting to heel position: one name for coming to left leg, another for coming to right leg.
Hi there Silvia and class mates. Here is our morning and afternoon session today. These are the 1st after a 2 1/2 month break while i was re-doing our DW. I hope you can see it as it is not very clear! I have put the whole DW flat on the ground and sending her into the tunnel 1st. i will not post all sesion just want to know if the trend is good. Thanks Silvia, very glad we are back training RC. 🙂
Great -- other than I think I still see some overreaches… Not completely sure because of a video quality, but definitely something to be extra attentive to see and not reward!
YEAAAAAHHH me happy!!!! 😀
We’ve tried onetime on a plank at our club (outside… the last session I’ve posted was inside on another dogwalk) and she did GREAT just like the session I posted on page 13. So now I know for sure it was because of the plank(s)! 😀
After our last carpet-session ( I posted that one a couple of days ago) we did one next session on the carpet and I was going to more sessions on the carpet, but then when we went to our club I noticed the last session when she did great was on the DWplanks ” outside” instead of the DWplanks ” inside”. So I thought let’s give it a try! Here is the video:
Happy Jonina & Jin 😉
Cool, definitely much better, she seems much happier to stay on this board as on a slippery one 🙂 Now you just need to see things right. Now that she is mostly running nicely, I would try not to reward funny front feet like 3 at all. You could do what Cecilia did with Ninja: put some socks on hind feet or even better (to not risk slipping again), some colourful bandage, so that you can see hind feet better and only jackpot hind feet. Front feet are o.k. too, but not “overreachy” front feet as in 3.
Hi there Silvia and Class mates. I have a technical issue, perhaps some one can help please? When i edit our videos into slow motion i loose clarity and end up with not being able to see the legs very well and almost not at all, as in our video above. is it because we are trying to tape from to far away or not high enough resolution when it is first taped before i slow motion it or is it perhpas the program i use to slow m it? I see some of the videos i watch are very clear to watch in slow mo and i would like that if posible as it sure helps way more than just a almost blur! can any one help please. thank you.
Alicia, I think many people are using Movie Maker for Windows (I do), or an Adobe program. Do you have Windows? If so , you might try that and see if it is better.
Thank you will check it out, happy training.
How many frames per second your camera does? I think that’s where the problem could be, I was getting what you are getting with my old camera… Not enough frames per second for RC speed…
Thank you i will check that out and see if i can change it, as the video is as important to see slow mo as the RC training.
Hi Silvia, how many frames per second, would be good if i need to look for a new camera? Thank you.
My camera is HD and has an option of 60 frames per second, but we’re mostly using 30 and it’s fine. Maybe others can help with what they have?
Hi Silvia, I found a setting on our video and changed it, video still not great, but better and i think at least i can see a bit more. I think we are going to have to buy a new one. What make of camera do you use? My one is a sony handy cam, but not new!
We are, Very happy, 🙂 as i see Spy as she used to run not in the 1st few but then she settles and it was very cool to see her not over reaching with her back legs to miss the end! I hope you see the same. This was our late session yesterday afternoon. I try do one in the early morning and one in the late afternoon. My ball throughing has gotten better again too, we where quite rusty, hee hee!
1st rep, i did not reward, 2nd i did, not 3 and 4, then she settles and i reward 5 to 13, not 14 -- over reach, rewarded 15. I know some where higher than others but i think i am just so happy to see her nice hind legs again, that i rewarded them. Hope you see the same. Thank you
Great job! Definitely many nice hind feet hits! I agree with what you rewarded, but I would reward 1 too: it is front foot, but that’s fine too, as long as she is not overreaching. You can do a couple of more sessions on the floor and then raise it some.
Wow, thank you, i am sooooo happy my Spy is finally back!:-)
Still a long road ahead but this is our re-start and we are just so happy to finally be back running !:-)
Still working on the ground with the same set up (tunnels at each end, planks on one side of loop, grass on other side of loop) and happily seeing some improvement. I have a couple of questions about what I’m clicking.
The first question is about leaps. It looked like #3 was a leap so no click. However, there are three I clicked and then wasn’t sure if they were little leaps when I looked at the video. The three I’m questioning are #1, 7, 11. Should I have clicked those?
The other question I have is whether I should continue clicking simply for running. Today is the first day I actually got some hits so I clicked/rewarded any running and added a jackpot for any hits on the first nine tries. Then I began to question whether I should just click running if I was getting some hits so I didn’t click #10, 12, 14 and sent her around the loop again. After each of those ‘no clicks’ she got a hit the second time around the loop……a single hind foot hit on #11 and solid hind feet hits on #13 and #15. I don’t know if she made an adjustment to get the hits or if the run on grass in between changed her stride.
It’s been so tough just to get the running that I don’t want to move too quickly to increase the criteria. At the same time I don’t want her to think that both missing and hitting the contact are acceptable. Would appreciate your insight on this.
Thanks. Carol
At this point, rewarding just running and jackpotting hits is perfectly o.k. It’s unrealistic to expect the dog to be hitting the end on purpose every time… -- if it were that easy, we wouldn’t need a 3.5 months class (and still have many people taking it again!). Once you get rid of the leaps completely, I would start to get more selective on feet placement, but I don’t worry about it at first. However, 14 and especially 10 actually looked leapy to me, so it was good to not click those two! I found those two more leapy as 1, 7 and 11 -- it’s harder to decide on those… At this point, you can get that selective to not click tries like that anymore, but no big deal if you clicked them for now.
Hi Silvia,
Before we go on break, I’m just wondering if you ever see a dog where you feel the time and effort needed to train running contacts is simply not the best choice? If so, is Bree one of those dogs? Our progress is painfully slow and, while we’ve had several sessions with 80% running recently, most often I’m still only getting about 50% running and sometimes less. While I’m not worrying about hits right now, it’s hard not to notice that we’ve only had a couple of sessions where I’ve gotten any hits, in spite of varying the distance between the tunnels and planks. She seems to be very adept at adjusting her stride (leaping!) to miss the end of the planks.
I’m certainly able to keep my focus on the progress I see and patiently build this skill step by step, but the pull to start entering her in trials (she’s almost 3) is getting strong and I don’t have a place to train in the winter so success with running contacts is beginning to look like it may be many months away. Is there any possibility of successfully training running contacts while doing the stopped contacts on the DW (drop on the contact like her teeter) and AF (drop on the ground past the base of the AF) in trials?
I’d love to hear any thoughts you might have.
Many thanks! Carol (discouraged but still smiling)
In cases like this, I always recommend teaching a stopped behaviour so that people can start trialing. It’s never good to teach RC under a pressure to trial, that’s why I like to start it early and take my time. So yes, start trialing and teach RC without that pressure. Ideally, you would be somewhere further in a process as then it’s no problem to get the running back, I had several students do that, but I think it shouldn’t be a problem with Bree either. As for when to give up… There is no absolute rule, I guess when it gets too stressful and no fun… It really depends on how much you want it… I think Ania who is also in this class, started in February or so and is only now able to raise it some with success… Cases like this are rare, but it does happen and then some give up and some persist… -- a personal choice. It’s possible with every dog, but not every handler is so persistent as Ania was. She is trialing meantime though so it’s definitely easier as when under pressure to trial.
Many thanks, Silvia. Moving ahead with both the stopped and the running contacts will definitely take the pressure off. I’m new to watching stride and, while I’m more sure about what I’m looking for, I’m still making some mistakes with clicks/rewards which I know is slowing us down. This will give me the time I need to develop a better eye without sacrificing the fun of trials. I know Bree will enjoy them. We’ve only done one fun run but little Bree practically swaggered out of the ring, very pleased with herself. 🙂
Without a doubt my next dog will be starting this younger so we can relax and take our time while working on all the other foundation skills and tricks.
Love the break in the middle of your classes. It really adds a nice rhythm to the lessons.
Carol
Hi Silvia,
Welcome back and big congratulations to you and your dogs!
Bree and I are now happily doing stopped contacts in class and will be entering our first trial in November. It’s a huge relief and we’re having lots of fun but I have not given up on running contacts. We will be successful!
We’ve actually made progress. In the video I’m starting Bree in a tunnel and have put a jump (instead of another tunnel) 4m past the end of the planks. We’ve been doing this set up for several days now and I’ve been getting consistent running. Sure does look pretty. 🙂
What’s the best way to proceed at this point? Should I continue like this for a while longer? Try moving the starting tunnel to promote more hind feet hits? Actually start to raise the planks?
Sorry about all the barking in the video. My aussie, who was injured this spring, has just been cleared for agility and is rather impatiently waiting her turn.
Thanks, Carol
Great! Good luck at the trial and yes, this is definitely lots of progress, no air anymore! You can try to challenge her some by moving a tunnel a bit to see what happens and if that goes well too, you can definitely raise the planks some!
A 2 week catchup is helpful. My computer is down until after Tues so won’t have any video to share by your Tues deadline.
I need advice. Cayenne is running 16″ plywood planks each 8′ long as I don’t have a dog walk and nearest training site is 2 1/2 hr one way. She is not consistent with getting back feet in contact. She over strides. Front feet touch just before yellow and back feet land after the plank exit. I’m at a loss as to how to fix it. I click and and jackpot (enthusiastic praise and tug) when her hind feet are in the contact, but apparently I’m doing something wrong that it doesn’t ‘click’ with her that when she overstrides and is not jackpotted it’s not the reward. No jackpot really doesn’t change her running contact. It’s like she knows where the contact line is and avoids getting feet in the zone.
That’s very strange, I never saw such a small dog hit the plank above the contact with front feet and then NOT putting hind feet in. We had some overreachy BCs do that (see videos from Fanny, Anne and Cecilia), but I have hard time imagining a Sheltie do it… Are you sure she is not with hind feet above the contact and then with front on the ground -- that would make more sense. That way or another, it’s unrealistic to expect her to hit the end of the plank on purpose at this stage -- it’s “accidental” at this point and your job is to find a set up that allows her to hit it by accident as often as possible so that you have many things to jackpot. Try to change her starting point or shorten the plank some to see if it helps. Could be she always starts a plank with front feet and then her natural striding takes her over the contact, so somewhat shorter plank would fix it. Also, try to get a 12″ plank somewhere to be able to then raise it.
Hi Silvia,
Here is a video of Billie’s 4th and 5th session.
Thanks 🙂