O.k., time for your first homework!
1. find a way to make your dog run as fast as he can, tape him from the side and study his striding in slow motion or even frame by frame: how far apart his hind feet are, how far forward hind feet reach over front feet, how long and high the stride is, how his back looks like and where his head is: many people think you want low head for running contacts, but in fact, you want the head look exactly the same as when running full speed in the fields 🙂
2. have a dog run over the plank, tape him from the side and compare it with the video above - tape it at the height you're currently at. If you're just starting, restrain the dog before your plank, carpet or whatever you're using, throw a toy and release. Slowly bring the dog further away from the plank to really have them come to the plank with full speed. Mark anything that looks like running in the fields from the first video, jackpot when feet are hitting at the end of a plank/carpet (where the contact will be), but reward anything that is running. Don't forget to click it or at least mark it with your voice! I prefer clicking, but you can also first use a voice and start clicking later, when you know your dog's stride better and can predict it better.
This is a good check-up for those who are already running their dogs on a raised plank and a good stride-study that will help you see and mark the correct striding better for those just starting. Once you see your dog is running nicely, with an even stride, hind feet separation and hind feet reaching further from front feet, you can put a brick or something under one end of the plank and have them run over slightly raised plank - I'll tell you when you're ready based on the videos you'll send.
And yes, we're for now throwing a toy in advance, letting the dog chase it, in order to get full speed. So yes, the dog is rewarded every time with a ball - so make sure that you really make the best tries even more special, use excitement in your voice, a play of tug on his favourite toy or food if that's his real preference - in short: make a party about the really good ones and don't worry about not so good ones - just throw that ball again! 🙂
3. to make it easier for the dog to understand what you're clicking for on that plank, we'll be teaching some tricks that are important to help them understand how to use their feet and that you might be clicking them for using them. The two things you will try this time is cavaletti work - walking the dog over drawers or boxes on the floor - and teaching the dog to step with front feet on an object and clicking for any movements of hind feet: the final goal is a full circle in both directions, but first click even for just a weight shift and then go from there.
Post a video with all 3 assignments, first two in slow motion please!!! - But PLEASE cut out all the parts where I can't see the dog: because seeing just the plank, and that is slow motion, is absolutely no fun - and you can't imagine how many planks in slow motion I saw by now!
Also, read all the comments and see as many videos as possible, you can learn A LOT through videos and comments of others, that's why we do it in a class form in a first place!
Two pictures showing what I mean by hind feet reach: hind feet must land further ahead from where front feet were:
Two pictures showing what I mean by hind feet separation: hind feet must be hitting two different spots as far apart as possible (vs. staying parallel, hitting the same spot).
To take the explanation of hind feet separation and reach forward even further, here is a discussion we had with a first class on it, this is my comment to those two videos:
Experimenting with a full low dogwalk
Experimenting with throwing his toy
My comment: he doesn’t run fast enough 
– That’s my answer to 90% of problems with running contacts, so you will probably hear that a lot in next few months Any BC, running full speed, is deep down the contact if doing two strides on a dog-walk ramp, period. Even my PyrShep who is 37cm (14.5″) does the down ramp in two hits and I even know a Papillon that is trying to, despite we would prefer him to do 3 hits Meaning that if a BC does 2 hits and is too high, he is not running enough. That’s some general info for everybody, I’m just using your videos to discuss this topic as they show some very nice tries and some “not running enough” tries.
On most tries, you can see his hind feet come just shortly more forward from where the front feet where. Normally, when the dog runs full speed, hind feet will land significantly further ahead from where front feet were – just like you can see in “experimenting with the toy” video at 1:16, 2:16 and 2:27 tries for example – those were very nice!!!
The faster the dog is moving, the further ahead from front feet hind feet will be landing and as a consequence, you will have MUCH bigger length covered as if hind feet hit where front feet were – meaning that if Bi’s front feet are above the contact, her first hind foot will be in the middle of the contact and the second one will be right at it’s bottom. - While if the dog’s hind feet only come to where front feet were, he is missing the contact in this situation - instead of getting a perfect one
That’s exactly why I always get suspicious when I hear people saying their dog is hitting with 4 feet. With a BC size dog, running full speed with good hind feet separation, it’s pretty much impossible to fit all 4 feet in. 3 is possible, but if they can fit all 4 feet in that small area, they don’t cover enough of an area and when they will be higher, all 4 feet will be out of the contact. Bi on the other hand is a typical example of the dog covering LOTS of an area, meaning that even if her front feet are landing in the middle of the down ramp (yeah, she desperately wants to do it in one hit), the second hind foot will be in the contact, as you can see in this video:
Complicated? Don't worry, it gets easier when you start to see the dog's stride 🙂
Hi Silvia and classmates,
Here is today’s session, it’s the 3th carpet session.
Not quite sure if this is the right way . . .??
We are also training for the tricks, but not yet so far that I can show something that you will like 😉
I hope I post this now on the right spot 😉 if not excuse me, than I really don’t know how to do it.
Great!!! Now that is running! 🙂 Jackpot tries like 15 (yeah, plenty of things to jackpot! 🙂 ) and do some more sessions like this, but already get a plank ready: 3.8m long, min. 60cm wide (or use two side by side), 2cm thin.
Wow Bianca, really lots of nice rear feet hits to jackpot! I like your dog, his stride is similar to my Thrill’s, so I appreciate watching your vids!
Anne
Thx Silvia!!
I will get a plank and make it ready!!
Today we did another session, it was hard to see if he hit it right, video will follow later.
Thx Anne!! He is also a really great dog 😉 I watch your video’s from Thrill!! To see the similarity 🙂
Is it really necessary to create a separate plank? Or can I use the 2 down ramps of the dw and maybe burrow it a little in the sand?
that saves me a lot of time 😉
You can try and see if he still runs the same way as on carpet, but it can be a problem, especially as he is a retrain…
Dear Silvia,
By mistake I uploaded my initial videos on the intro page, but I will continue our discussion here to get some order. 🙂
I have some questions on rewarding. Tea is not that found of balls, but is crazy about rubber toys (animals). I promise you, it is bloody difficult to throw a rubber pig with good precision… Thus, in order to get good attitude when I started to run Tea over the plank, I used a helper for the toy after the plank and let Tea go spontaneously from the collar. She is totally crazy about this type of rewarding and there is very little leaping tendency. I have also tried to leave the toy after the plank and then bringing her to the start. Tea runs good, but she is not as crazy as with a helper giving life to the toy. Somewhat more leaping tendency, but that may decrease when Tea is more used to this type of rewarding. The 3rd alternative I have tried is bringing her to a start line stay, giving her start cue when I am at the middle of the plank and at the same time throwing the toy. Tea runs very good with the 3rd alternative as well, but the down side is that she is so crazy about getting away that she leaves her start line without cue too often. This is of course a training issue, but it feels like wrong priority using time for start line training when I want to focus the session on RC.
Your view on which reward(s) to work with is highly appreciated!
Well, I would for now mostly use first and third option only that instead of using a stay and ruining it, I would use a send to the tunnel or a wrap around the object as an alternative to allow you to be in front while not ruining stays. You can also start throwing it sooner&sooner as eventually, you want her to run as well to a static as to a thrown toy -- but that’s actually your next homework anyway 🙂
Earlier this week Tea has done a good job, but today was not her day… I want to send you the video anyhow, because I think it is interesting to see her bad final 4 runs. What I think is clear from the video is the fact that when she arrives at the plank so that she starts with front legs approx. 1 m in (total length of plank is 5 m) she arrives good at the end and also runs good all way. However, if she arrives differently, Tea does neither continue running normally, nor is she adjusting to have her hind feet hitting “the contact”, but she is rather adjusting in that sense that she leaps / lengthen her final stride in order to pass the end of the plank. What are your thoughts? How could we help her to understand what we expect her to do?
At this stage, it’s somewhat unrealistic to expect her to adjust her stride to hit the end, BUT you of course also don’t want adjustments to miss it! The only way to teach her that is to not reward the bad tries (like 4, 16 and last 4) and jackpot the best tries…
Here comes the video of our shaping work for lesson 1.
And today’s work on the plank. I wish it was as easy to see the performance in real time as it is in slow motion video… Well I will keep on working on being a better trainer. Have spent an hour trying to identify details revealing whether Tea will perform good or bad. Looking forward to your comments.
Cool, nice job with tricks and less leapy on the plank. Placement of the hits is is still not perfect, but I think that part will be easier on a slightly raised plank, so if she keeps running like this, I would try slightly raised plank.
Hi Silvia,
Here is Synergy’s first time on a raised plank. I’ll await your feedback before we continue.
Thanks,
Marla
Alright. I had to go repair the SloMo version. Here it is:-)
Thanks,
Marla
Wow Marla! His speed sure is impressive!!
Huh, that’s VERY leapy… -- Mostly landing on the contact, but way too much air. I think it’s partly because your plank is so bouncy, it sends her flying. I would go back to the floor for a couple of sessions to make her forget about the flying and then try it again, but with a lower object (max. half of this one) and supporting the planks well in the middle with additional object so that they’re not that bouncy.
Thanks, Silvia. That’s what I thought. Well, everything from 1:44 to almost 3:00 (except the very last attempt) were big air. That is her tendency all the time, which is one of the reasons I was a little hesitant to start RC with her. She is just bouncy -- springs in her back legs. I will go do what you say but also keep in mind this is her tendency all the time -- even around the house. She will just bounce up in the air off her hind legs to look out the window, for example. She is very light on her feet and it is easy for her to do this. I would like to know if this is going to make RC even more difficult or if you think I can overcome this by the plank running. OK. Will go lower the plank to the ground and then prop up half the height with more support.
Thank you,
Marla
Well, she was not at all bouncy on that plank on the ground, so no, it’s not like this would be her natural movement 🙂 She is clearly avoiding running on that bouncy thing -- I can completely understand her. Just get her natural movement back and she will be in again.
I think I posted in the wrong place. Here is Synergy today -- board not bouncy and only about 4 inches off the ground. After a few attempts, I went to placed toy.
Thanks,
Marla
1, 2 and 3 is perfect! Running to a static toy, I don’t like so much, she seems to be shortening her stride already on the plank, I think her toy is either too close or she doesn’t drive to it enough, so I would definitely work some more with a thrown toy, those were MUCH better!
Hi Silvia,
We finally made our plank! It is made of 2 x 19cm wide by 2.4m long planks. I have been using 2 pairs together to get a total length of 4.8m. I know you have specified 3.8m -- should I try to cut the planks shorter?
Also a question of reward methods -- I have used a number of methods
1) Restrain by collar, throw the ball and release whilst ball is in motion
2) Place the ball a few metres from the plank & restrain by collar & release to a stationary ball
3)Place Harley in a sit stay, I stand a couple of metres away from the end of the board with the ball, release Harley & click & throw ball when he gets it right. he does not get rewarded if he leaps.
He seems to go just as fast with any of the methods but is there a method I should be progressing towards. You have suggested to someone else to send to tunnel or jump but I think it may be too early for him..
Also, there was one session when it looked like he really extending the last stride -- his hind legs hit the board and he seemed to be trying really hard to hit with his front legs the ground in front of the board edge. I was not sure whether or not that was desirable so i stopped using the board & returned to the carpet. He stopped extending his last stride on the carpet and also on the board when i started using the board again. This occurred over 2 sessions. Did I do the right thing?
Will try to get a video done tomorrow if I feel better from the flu!
Uh, no, extending his stride to avoid the end and land on the ground is of course not desirable 🙂 so it was good to go back to the carpet. You can include all three ways in your video for me to see how he is doing, but normally, I only do 1) in first stages (with a possible variation of sending to the tunnel first instead of restraining -- you can of course try it with Harley too!), then go to stationary toy and only then, after tons of repetitions that give me a good forward focus switch to throwing a toy after -- I doubt he is ready for that, but you can send a video to check it. 3.8m is FCI length -- you should check with your organisation and then go to that length yes, but it doesn’t hurt if you started with a longer one.
Here’s my video with the 3 different ways on the plank. Due to the speed I am finding really difficult to click the right behaviour! How do everyone do it?
Also, did not manage to tape the tunnel send -- he had a really good session at dusk the day before -- I think it is because he could not see the ball & just defaulted to running on the plank after the tunnel but today when I tried the tunnel, he kept leaping!
We do our best practice sessions at dusk but not enough light to video!
Hm, how long is this plank? Did you try to start him further back? And throw longer? He is definitely the fastest with a thrown toy and the slowest with recalls, so I would stick with a thrown toy, BUT in every try, he is leaping the contact, so he is learning a wrong thing, that’s why I think you need to change his starting point. I would also remove the poles (maybe move them at the beginning?) as it might be it’s the poles that cause leaping… Try it and a send a video to see if that helps. If the leaping still persists, I would try to run him from one tunnel to another (or from a wrap to a tunnel and back) over the plank, ignoring the leaps and jackpotting the running.
You may be right, I noticed increased leaping when I start using the poles. I start him about 1m away from the planks. The planks are 2 sets of 2.4m long planks -- so in total 4.8m long
Should I use just one set -- 2.4m?
Should I return to carpet running for a couple of sessions?
No, longer is better, I was just wondering why he is doing so many strides on them. Try without the poles and see if he stops leaping and if not, go back to the carpet for some more sessions and then maybe go to planks with carpet over them if that will work.
Hi Silvia,
We have been having rainy weather here in New York. Hopefully the weather will clear up and I can get back to training my RCs. I am training my puppy on the see saw. Just having her bang it for now. What is your criteria for the see saw? Do you train a 2 on 2 off for the seesaw? Also how do you train the see saw from the beginning? Thanks!
See-saw is actually Foundation Class topic… In short, I normally do 4on with lighter dogs, 2on2off with BC size -- and I must admit that we don’t see much bigger as that 🙂 but with your dogs, I would definitely try getting running though. Banging game is a great start, you could try running through (with a little pause at the pivot) on a very low see-saw next.
Hi Silvia:
Here is our 3rd A-frame session. The 1st session I took Tai up to this height. The 2nd session, I tried full ht and didn’t like what I was getting, so I put the frame back down to just a few inches below full ht. Like in all the sessions, there is a low jump on either side of the A-frame. I labeled what I stopped and rewarded but when I didn’t reward, I just turned him around the jump and did it again. After watching the video, there were some I wish I had stopped and rewarded -- especially 5 and 8. I’m curious what you think! Like with the dog walk, I have to get better at spotting the best ones. The BIG AIR ones (3 and 13) were interesting! I’m curious what you think!
Anne & Tai
Great, I like the variety you are getting, he obviously knows what is this all about and is trying to figure out the best striding for him. And the trend through the video was definitely good. With an A-frame, I’m actually happy with anything that is in and let them choose their style. So yes, for me everything that you rewarded + those that you wrote you should have rewarded + airy ones were o.k. Airy ones are not unusual at the beginning, but they go away on their own once they settle on one striding. He is definitely not there yet, but as he clearly understands his job, it shouldn’t take too long.
Hi Silvia:
Thanks for your comments. When you say you reward anything that is “in”… I assume you mean as long as they are running through…with split rear feet?
Anne
You want split feet yes, but as I wrote before, I actually don’t train A-frame at all, I just include it in sequences and let the dog figure it out without much feedback from me. I will stop and redo ugly leaps, but keep going for anything else (including feet together). That always gave me split feet eventually.
You mean…no obsessing???? Yeah!!!
Exactly 🙂 I obsess over DW enough 🙂
mmmm, I guess I`m a little obsess with the A-frame, Acqua is not doing good, I haven`t be able to edit muy videos, something is wrong with my computer, I hope tomorrow I can.
I love the 13th, he is flying !
Hi. We had 10 good sessions on the carpet alone and she seemed successful running there but we are having problems with leaping now that I am using a plank. I am using a thin plank with the carpet over it. I put some “weights” on the carpet to make the plank more stable. She has good motivation to chase but she is often leaping at the end. Not sure how to help her understand what I want.
Did you try different starting points, is there a pattern of from where you get the best tries? -- Tries like 2? She seemed to start the closest on that try, maybe you should try that starting point again and see if that gives you consistent jackpottable hits: that would be great! Also, any idea why running on the plank is so different for her? Is the width the same? Anything else that was changed?
Try 2 was good right? Yes, here she was restrained quite close. The plank is actually a 6 inches wider than the carpet, the carpet is laid down the center. The worst leaping seemed to come when she started with the tunnel. Maybe she is somehow responding to my movement or the movement of the toy as I run with it? I am curious if a stationary toy might help her focus forward and downward.
Yeap, 2 was very good, you can try this starting position again. You should of course try different forms of rewarding too, how did you reward with the carpet? Usually, I like a toy, thrown low and in advance the best as many dogs don’t run as fast to a static toy and often get bouncy, but of course, every dog is different, so you can try how she runs then. Also, did you try throwing a ball in advance for her to chase it over the plank?
Ha ha, must confess to some puppy training holes here. If I throw a real ball she does not bring it back. She has very little interest in food (for trades) when training and we are still working on fetching for second toy reward. For carpet and plank I have been using a ball on a rope which is hard for me to throw with accuracy! So I am running ahead, like a restrained recall, tossing the toy as she runs over the plank. Will try some throws in advance in a safe location.
With Le, I was using 6 tennis balls and just called her back to the next one and then picked them all up once I ran out of them 🙂
Hi Silvia.
It was suggested to me today to work with Da Vinci on running UP a DW ramp to a high table to get a cookie…as a means of getting him more confident on it and to understand that the up ramp is part of the full DW. Do you agree?
Kristin
It definitely can’t hurt, despite I think it’s horizontal plank he doesn’t like too much?
Hi Silvia and Classmates…
BENJI TURNED AROUND!!!! i’m happy !!
Cool! 🙂 Did you find a good plank yet?
Hi Silvia,
Yes we painted him last week but he is wet so we do only the carpet now 😉
Hi Silvia,
Finally we’ve made it: Núria and I have bought our thin plank yesterday evening:-) There are 2 planks each 2,40m*50cm.
I’ll try them this evening.
I’ve read your previous comments and I have 2 questions:
-- Are we able to follow this class without trainning 15 RC trials a day (20 per week would be a challenge)?
-- Since you don’t really train the A Frame, should I start it with Karmen?
Thank you
Céline
Why would you start with an A-frame??? Finish her DW and her A-frames will be perfect -- see Tai! A-frames are for free after you get the DW right, it’s not like I don’t train them because I’m happy with 5 points on A-frame, I don’t train them because I NEVER get a mistake on A-frame 🙂 🙂 🙂 And no, you won’t be able to get to full height DW in 3,5 months with 20 repetitions per week. It’s no problem, she is still very young anyway, so you can finish it later, but don’t even try to keep up, it’s not possible. Do as many as you can, but you can only raise the plank after every 3 to 5 successful sessions on each height.
ok we’ll train as much as we can with my free time…
do you just confirm that we should cut the plank to get 3,80 or is it easier to start with a 4,80m-long plank (actual size)
I think real length would be better as it will allow you to practice final striding pattern on down ramp.
I’m tying to figure out a way to make it fit inside my flat!! It would be then so easy to make our 15 trials a day 🙂
Let’s see what I can build …
The problem is that in order to do it inside, you need to have very non-slippery floor… Maybe outside on artificial grass?
in diagonal i have 11 mts… if you think she can get the point there, i can build the plank this we (i thought it was 15 at least). let me know
Yeah, not perfect… Maybe you can first try with a carpet and see if she will run full speed on such a limited place?