O.k., time for your first homework!
1. find a way to make your dog run as fast as he can, tape him from the side and study his striding in slow motion or even frame by frame: how far apart his hind feet are, how far forward hind feet reach over front feet, how long and high the stride is, how his back looks like and where his head is: many people think you want low head for running contacts, but in fact, you want the head look exactly the same as when running full speed in the fields 🙂
2. have a dog run over the plank, tape him from the side and compare it with the video above - tape it at the height you're currently at. If you're just starting, restrain the dog before your plank, carpet or whatever you're using, throw a toy and release. Slowly bring the dog further away from the plank to really have them come to the plank with full speed. Mark anything that looks like running in the fields from the first video, jackpot when feet are hitting at the end of a plank/carpet (where the contact will be), but reward anything that is running. Don't forget to click it or at least mark it with your voice! I prefer clicking, but you can also first use a voice and start clicking later, when you know your dog's stride better and can predict it better.
This is a good check-up for those who are already running their dogs on a raised plank and a good stride-study that will help you see and mark the correct striding better for those just starting. Once you see your dog is running nicely, with an even stride, hind feet separation and hind feet reaching further from front feet, you can put a brick or something under one end of the plank and have them run over slightly raised plank - I'll tell you when you're ready based on the videos you'll send.
And yes, we're for now throwing a toy in advance, letting the dog chase it, in order to get full speed. So yes, the dog is rewarded every time with a ball - so make sure that you really make the best tries even more special, use excitement in your voice, a play of tug on his favourite toy or food if that's his real preference - in short: make a party about the really good ones and don't worry about not so good ones - just throw that ball again! 🙂
3. to make it easier for the dog to understand what you're clicking for on that plank, we'll be teaching some tricks that are important to help them understand how to use their feet and that you might be clicking them for using them. The two things you will try this time is cavaletti work - walking the dog over drawers or boxes on the floor - and teaching the dog to step with front feet on an object and clicking for any movements of hind feet: the final goal is a full circle in both directions, but first click even for just a weight shift and then go from there.
Post a video with all 3 assignments, first two in slow motion please!!! - But PLEASE cut out all the parts where I can't see the dog: because seeing just the plank, and that is slow motion, is absolutely no fun - and you can't imagine how many planks in slow motion I saw by now!
Also, read all the comments and see as many videos as possible, you can learn A LOT through videos and comments of others, that's why we do it in a class form in a first place!
Two pictures showing what I mean by hind feet reach: hind feet must land further ahead from where front feet were:
Two pictures showing what I mean by hind feet separation: hind feet must be hitting two different spots as far apart as possible (vs. staying parallel, hitting the same spot).
To take the explanation of hind feet separation and reach forward even further, here is a discussion we had with a first class on it, this is my comment to those two videos:
Experimenting with a full low dogwalk
Experimenting with throwing his toy
My comment: he doesn’t run fast enough – That’s my answer to 90% of problems with running contacts, so you will probably hear that a lot in next few months
Any BC, running full speed, is deep down the contact if doing two strides on a dog-walk ramp, period. Even my PyrShep who is 37cm (14.5″) does the down ramp in two hits and I even know a Papillon that is trying to, despite we would prefer him to do 3 hits
Meaning that if a BC does 2 hits and is too high, he is not running enough. That’s some general info for everybody, I’m just using your videos to discuss this topic as they show some very nice tries and some “not running enough” tries.
On most tries, you can see his hind feet come just shortly more forward from where the front feet where. Normally, when the dog runs full speed, hind feet will land significantly further ahead from where front feet were – just like you can see in “experimenting with the toy” video at 1:16, 2:16 and 2:27 tries for example – those were very nice!!!
The faster the dog is moving, the further ahead from front feet hind feet will be landing and as a consequence, you will have MUCH bigger length covered as if hind feet hit where front feet were – meaning that if Bi’s front feet are above the contact, her first hind foot will be in the middle of the contact and the second one will be right at it’s bottom. - While if the dog’s hind feet only come to where front feet were, he is missing the contact in this situation - instead of getting a perfect one
That’s exactly why I always get suspicious when I hear people saying their dog is hitting with 4 feet. With a BC size dog, running full speed with good hind feet separation, it’s pretty much impossible to fit all 4 feet in. 3 is possible, but if they can fit all 4 feet in that small area, they don’t cover enough of an area and when they will be higher, all 4 feet will be out of the contact. Bi on the other hand is a typical example of the dog covering LOTS of an area, meaning that even if her front feet are landing in the middle of the down ramp (yeah, she desperately wants to do it in one hit), the second hind foot will be in the contact, as you can see in this video:
Complicated? Don't worry, it gets easier when you start to see the dog's stride 🙂
Well I think I am getting nice running but not getting many good hits at all and not sure how to fix this. This video is two days of training. Day one with a tunnel 4 metres from the plank and day two I moved it another metre back to 5 metres. I got less hits at the 5 metres. So should she be finding that end spot on her own or should I be moving the tunnel different places until I get more hits? If I am to move it should it be further away or closer?
Oh and I get a bit confused about where I am meant to be posting my stuff. Should I be adding it to my other ones as replies? I have been just putting them after the latest post.
Yes, the best is to put a new video as a reply to the first one you posted for that lesson -- and then post under the new lesson once you’re there.
I think the major reason you’re not getting many good hits is because with her length of stride, she should hit this plank with hind feet first (as in 1.5 for example) in order to be nicely in and that often doesn’t make sense to the dogs, they prefer to hit the plank with front feet first (like 1.6). And in fact, on DW plank, that would take her nicely in… So maybe, now that she knows it’s about running on the plank, you could go to DW plank if it’s thin enough: you can also raise it some to soften the edge. It looks like she will do great on DW plank and if so, you can start raising it.
Yay!! Switched to the dw planks and she had 100% hits! I had to put two side by side though as she didn’t want to stay on it with one. How long should I stay on the two planks for? Don’t want to get stuck on the wider plank.
I’ll do another session this afternoon and post video from today. Thanks Sylvia. 🙂
Here are our dw plank runs from today. I think I need to put something under that one plank as it is moving a bit too much. I don’t think it’s worrying her too much but don’t want her avoiding it because of the movement.
So at the moment I am clicking and jackpotting all hits. Is that right?
Also how long do you think I should wait until trying her on one plank? Should I try lifting the entry side up a little bit now or do a few more sessions with it flat? So many questions. 🙂
No, 3, 7 and 8 of 2nd session were not good, those were really leapy, so ideally, you wouldn’t click that. I would only jackpot 4 and 5 of 1st session and 2, 5, 6 and 9 of the 2nd. But yes, try with raised planks, it will be easier to fix them better.
Maria, can I ask you how long your first set up? Was that an aframe laid flat against the ground? How long was the total length? Now I’m obsessed with learning this stuff!
Great! Keep the two planks until you get a little bit more height, it makes more sense then for a dog to run on a plank as it does when it’s flat on the ground. So for now, raise both planks, I think she is ready!
In this session I raised the plank the first time, just 10 cm. I jackpotted 1,2,4,5,9,10,11. At the moment I am really unsure, at the videos I see that Candis is very often with her front feet at the end of the plank and her hind feet are at the ground. Jackpotting or not? Her hind feet were just perfect in 10.
Ok never mind it is there now! I am either going crazy or it came back. I looked so slowly 10 times!!!! 🙂
Yeap, it’s sometimes hard to find things, with so many comments! 🙂
Great! She is running really well, no leaps at all, so you can as well raise it some more if she always runs like this. You should definitely mark front feet too, front feet are good too -- I only don’t like one front foot at the very end -- but two front feet in the middle, like she is doing, is definitely o.k. Still, maybe try to reward hind feet and tries like 10 even more enthusiastically, simply because hind feet are harder to get.
Silvia,
I posted a video for Oliver yesterday (Sept. 11 in Texas), logged in later to see if there was a reply, so I know it was there but now it is gone?! I have gone thru all the pages to see if it got out of order somehow but it appears to have disappeared!
Did you see it and/or know where it is or shall I repost. I don’t want to repost if you already commented and I just can’t find it!!
Hi Silvia and classmates,
Here is a video after 8 sessions on the carpet. It is really hard to see of he is doing it right in full speed. I only watch if there is a paw in the contact and afterward in slow motion I saw I jackpot a lot of times wrong 😉 need some more practice there.
He is doing a lot of front feet hits, I jackpot those as well. I read in a reply somewhere else it isn’t a problem, but is he doing it right like this??
Can I go to the plank (it’s almost ready to use) or more sessions on the carpet first?
I discovered some problems doing the tricks. The tricks we did before are all with a lot of action, and now it have to be precise. He will get frustrated and a little over the top, bark and don’t think anymore. So to avoid this, I tried several things, this time he was a little worn-out, and that give us some good results 😉 The cavaletti I misunderstood, so only practice it once today. I will do some more practice on both tricks.
Yeah, seeing things gets easier with practice. He is running really nicely, so you can go to the plank now. Hind feet would be even better, but for now, you mostly get front as he mostly hits the carpet with front first and then front hit again in contact area. To get hind feet, he will need to hit down ramp with hind feet first, but we need low DW set up to work on that, so front feet are o.k. for now. The tricks are going well too, I would spread and lower the cavaletti some, though.
Oke thank you Silvia!! I will go to the plank it’s ready to use now 😉
And we did some new work with the tricks, lower the cavaletti and more space between, it went really well!! I think we are getting somewhere he is not barking anymore, also not with the start of the new tricks 😉 Yeah me happy!!
Trying hard to catch up after moving so here is Bree’s tricks video. Easy to see the side of her personality that likes to hurry. 🙂
She is very cute, Carol!! Such a pretty girl with such a plumed tail and furry britches!!! Great job!!
Amy and Little Spur
Thanks, Amy. She’s a little character and lots of fun to have around, though not easy.
Great job! She sure looks lots of fun! 🙂
Grace and I are a LONG way behind, but i guess better late than never! While waiting for our plank to dry we tried some carpet runs again
We weren’t getting the best hits. I think #4 was the best. 3 & 5 were bad -- is that just because her stride is so long that she completely misses the end of the carpet? As you can see i’m still hopeless at judging it at the time -- only in retrospect that i can see which ones are good/bad 🙂
Yeap, she is not leaping at all, but of course, her stride takes her over the contact sometimes, it’s normal and no problem as long as you don’t mark those and jackpot the best ones instead: 1and 4 were perfect. You can try different starting points, maybe there is one that gives you more hits like that. But mostly, it’s just a question of repetition and selecting for the best ones. You can keep working on the carpet until the plank is ready: maybe put a tape to mark “reward-able” area, it will make it easier for you to see and decide how to reward.
Thanks Silvia! Using tape is a great idea to help me 🙂
Silvia an classmates… HELP 🙁
We are having a hard time, things don’t go very well lately.
I am clicking for the wrong things and don’t see the good things. I am a little embarrassed to post the video of our training we did this evening, but then… that’s how we learn right?
Here is part one of the training…don’t know which is worse (both are) so I’ll post this one 🙁
Jonina & Jin
Stop! No more sessions on that plank! Did you see what happens to her hind feet when she tries to push off? Like at 2:12? She is slipping terribly! What happened? Did you paint it again? Or the sand wore out? Or was she always slipping and we just didn’t notice at first as she was running that well? When did you loose the hind feet separation? Do you have videos to track it down? Anyway, when things fall apart like that, you definitely need to stop, review the videos, send them in and try to fix the problem. The leap here and there is normal, but when the whole session is like that, you want to stop it immediately. She is definitely struggling to run on that plank, so do some carpet sessions to make her forget about it and meantime try to fix that plank.
Hallo Jonina, our plank was very slippery too and so we decided to bring some tar paper on it. Even when it`s raining our plank isn`t slippery now; and it often rains in Germany……We fused the tar paper on the plank so that there are no dents on it. May be this is a helpful design for you too.
Thanks Silvia, I am so ashamed I didn’t noticed she was slippering that much! :'(
It started to rain a little so I think that was the problem… oh boy why didn’t I stop?! 🙁 To me it didn’t looked like she was struggling but now I see… 🙁 I am so ashamed! I will take a look at older video’s hopefully I will see where she loses the hind feet seperation 🙁
We will go back to the carpet.
Oh, don’t be ashamed, things like this are very hard to impossible to see in real speed! That’s why I always say it’s better to stop when things go wrong, review the video or send it in. Now let’s hope that was the only reason and she is still running as beautifully as on the last video you posted before that one. Or did you have more bad sessions before this one?
Today we did one session on a carpet and we tried it again on the plank (because the sun was shining and it wasn’t raining) to see if she slipped because of the rain or if the plank is to slippery because of other things. We will make it less slippery anyway so we can still train if it’s raining.
I would really like to know what you think…. do you think it was because of the rain, (I don’t see her slip in the other video’s)
If you think so, can I still train on these planks while in the meantime I will search for that tar paper?
Or should we only train on carpet for a while?
The latest video I’d posted (page 13) was at our club, so unfortunately these were not my planks. (Here you also noticed her hind feet seperation wasn’t as good as it was before, I really don’t know why! Is it because I am clicking for the wrong things?)
I will post more videos this time… to compare…
12 sept: I put some poles next to the plank because of the wind. Maybe it also rained a little, I don’t remember 🙁
Today on the carpet: I’d tried to click for hind feet seperation
Today on the planks: I noticed in the other video’s the tunnel was further away.. maybe that’s why her stride is different and she doesn’t hit the yellow? It looks to me she doesn’t slip, am I right?
Thank you Jonina & Jin
The last video is private. But I think I do see some slipping on a first video, especially on the white. But it is sanded, right? Very strange. I think she is running better on the carpet, she really looks as if running on the plank is not completely comfortable for her.
It could be raining a little on Sept 12, I don’t remember exactly. PLease will you also take a look at the last video
(I’ve changed it), because yesterday it didn’t rain. And if you think that time she didn’t slip, I can do more sessions this weekend. If you think she also slipped in this video, I will try to find that tar paper. Or should I paint and sand them again. ( I have painted them twice and sanded them once) Or should I make slats on it?
O.k., checked it and she still seems to slip some… Not sure if this is just the slow motion side-effect, but comparing to carpet running, I really think she slips on a plank and that’s why she keeps her hind feet together and often leaps to get off as soon as possible… Compare try 5 to carpet for example. Can you send a video of her on planks from your club again to see if she slips there too? You could try either sanding it again (how big sand did you use and can you still feel it when touching the plank?) or putting something on it, rubber would be another alternative. That paper should eb o.k., if only it doesn’t burn the pads??? Slats wouldn’t help I think.
Oh boy what have I done I that it goes that bad lately! 🙁 Yesterday I drove to the club to try it on those planks. It went terrible :'(
Here is our first session:
I stopped… thought about it… and tried something else… I removed the pole a little backwards (I sended her around a pole, in the second session about 4 meters away)… at that time it looked like if it was a little better but now while looking at it… I see it didn’t 🙁
A sad Jonina & Jin
Huh, yes, she is sure trying hard to avoid stepping on the contact…. Overreaches with front and hind feet or leaps… Let’s try to run her the other way around, so that she starts on white, just to see if she made a connection between white and something bad (maybe slipping on it?) as she is definitely avoiding that part of the plank. Did you review your old videos, do you know when this started? Can you see anything that provoked it? -- Slipping, stepping on the edge or something similar? As she seems to run well on your carpet, maybe you could try fixing the carpet on your plank?
Ok, this evening I tried to run her the other way around… (I had to do it on my own planks, and I have to say the grass was a little wet so we didn’t do to many sessions)
My poor girl… I feel like I am learning her the wrong things! I hardly dare to train! 🙁
Here are the video’s, thank you for your time!
I don’t think your clicking gave you the leaping as the trend would be slower then. It looks like there was a sudden change towards leaping and I think it was because of the slipping. So I would only do carpet work for a while now and meantime make a plank more unslippery. And yes, 4, 5, 10, 12 and 13 would be a reward, 8 would be no reward and 11 jackpot. The rest is good.
I forgot to say! All the video’s I made I have posted already. We had a break for almost two weeks. The video I made on Sept 1 ( posted on page 13) and the video’s before looked ok to me, so the bad things started on Sept 12 🙁 really don’t know how!!! Maybe I clicked for too many bad things?
I will try to fix the plank by painting it again and I will use more sand now. I asked for rubber but I was told that it will make it that much heavier that I can’t carry it anymore…. so I hope this will work! 🙁
Here is our session from today…. will you please let me know if she did ok and if so… about how many sessions should we do before we can go back to the plank? (I will try to do 1 or 2 sessions (per session about 15 runnings) a day on the carpet.
MUCH better! Your rewarding was good, maybe I wouldn’t jackpot 8 as you got enough much deeper hits, but no problem to jackpot some more. I would do 3 more sessions like that and then try the plank again, but only do a couple of tries and check on a video if she is still slipping or not.
Thank you so much Birgit!! Just by responding!
That’s a great idea!! Here in the Netherlands it’s also mostly raining! Can you tell me where to find it? In what kind of store?
I think you should find it in the same store where you found your plank. In stores where you can buy everything for house and garden.
Oke thank you Birgit, I will take a look if I can buy it there!
Hi Silvia,
Here is our 2nd day working on the new plank (I was abroad from monday to wednesday).
I found a new strategy: fading slowly the carpet .
Hope you can see the difference with sunday and hope you think I can keep on training at home. It’s so easy to practice 15 times a day.
I forgot to tape the end of the yard to show you how much space she has (almost the dobble of what she has before the plank but with little stairs).
Congratulations for your results at national championship !
Céline
Better, so I guess it doesn’t hurt if you do some more work like this, BUT do try to train with more room as often as possible too!
Hello guys,
Here’s comes our late intro and first lesson video.
My name is Angela from Vancouver, I’m currently owned by 3 dogs: 7 and a half yo Pug Crash, 6 and a half yo goldie toby, and 4 months old Aussie Smores. I sign up the class with my goldie Toby, it’s our repeat class and I hope that we will get it done successfully in the end 🙂
Silvia, even though its our repeat class, i just start everything right from the scratch. I havent worked him on the perch training for a long time, and it’s where we are at right now.
Looks ready to add some height to me 🙂 Nice perch work too!
Hi Silvia and Classmates,
Here is Spec’s single ramp work. I added the up ramp. Reward rate is very low. If he gets the same thing wrong twice in a row I vary something to help him be right so I have something to reward. I’ve varied his start. Sometimes it’s into a tunnel, sometimes from a sit or a moving stand, others from a restrained recall at various places on the ramp. Sometimes I’ll throw, and other times use a stationary toy. Is this normal while the dog figures out what we want? Or am I doing something wrong?
I have a DW that starts at 12 inches for the horizontal ramp. Do you think I should go to it? If I do, would I start him on the horizontal ramp and stay there for awhile or get him running the full DW?
tricks video: he definitely prefers one way over the other
Ramp work;
Thank you for your help.
Sorry. Meant to post this video:
The good thing is he is still running. If he is hitting or not depends on where he hits the down ramp first: he hits nicely when he hits a down ramp with front feet first, but not too deep -- when he hits too deep, he can’t fit another stride in and when he hits it with rear feet first, he often doesn’t get deep enough -- for now, but I think this will be his final striding, so you might reward some high hits too if only the striding is correct (hind feet on the board first, then full extended stride and good hind feet separation). However, he is not adjusting his stride yet to hit it, but that’s pretty normal at this stage. I think this set up makes it somewhat harder for him too, I think two tables in between would give him more room to adjust. Low DW would be another idea, you could start him in the middle first but then move him further back and finally have him run the whole thing.
Thanks Silvia. I’ll go with the low DW. I can’t believe the way Spec just keeps trying with the low reward rate. He’s a trooper:) Will start looking for rear feet to hit first on the down ramp.
Yeah, give him some time to get used to the new set up, it’s not easy. I’m sure his successful rate will go up fast once he gets comfortable with those single planks.
Great job with the tricks! The plank work I can’t see, it’s private…
Double drat. I do apologize. It should be fixed. Just when I think I’ve got this videoing/editing/posting down I prove myself wrong.