As you did such a great job with your first homework, you're getting some more this time 🙂 I again marked the ones to focus on first. Post wherever you end up, we learn the most through problems, so you want to post those too! 🙂 So try to view other students' videos and my comments to them too!
1. experiment with different toys and ways to play with your dog. Tape his favourite game to give some new ideas to other participants (and me!!!). From my dogs, Le LOVES to chase things on a string, especially squeaky toys, plastic bags and everything else that makes sound! La hates squeaky toys, but goes crazy for real fur and ladder. Bi loves tugging - on anything BUT real fur, she finds it really gross and won't touch it. - Not that I would be trying in that direction either, only extra durable toys can handle her bite! Bu doesn't care so much about what toy we use, but she definitely wants ME involved: running and making silly noises. She also loves when she has a toy and I'm pretending I want to steal it from her, but am afraid to do so.
2. instead of a plate, find something a little higher this time to give them a better feeling of where to keep their front legs, click first for two front feet on an object (should be easy, you want the same thing as on a plate) and then observe hind legs and click for ANY movement (even just a weight shift) and then shape from there for more&more steps around the object. I first click both directions and once I get half of a circle in both directions, start clicking one direction only and reward with a head away from me in order to get a full circle - turning the head away from you in the hardest part, that's why you want to reward with head away at this point. The final goal are full circles in both directions, with you static (don't help the dog to circle with your movement!) - I think those that have my heeling video can already do that exercise, though 🙂
3. take the plate and hold it in different positions to see if the dog understands it's the same thing even when you hold it higher, under the angle, even vertical, to his left/right etc. Try when he is standing, sitting and lying down. If you didn't name touching an object with a paw, it's time to do it now! Also, try to change objects for this exercise, sometimes also use a hand as a paw target. Once he can do all that, you're ready for next two tricks we will get out of the paw touch:
- crossing paws: tell the puppy to down (or shape it if he doesn't know it yet), then hold the plate (or, you can use another, smaller and more convenient object, like a plastic lid or a piece of paper) close to the left paw and only reward touching it with left paw. Then hold it closer and closer to right paw, still only reward left paw touches, then hold it on right paw and eventually on the other side, jackpoting the touches of left paw on a right paw now in order to eventually get rid of a target.
- sit up: tell the puppy to sit (or shape it if he doesn't know it yet), then put the plate (or just use the hand if he will recognize that as a target) low enough first that he can reach it with a paw, but then every next time, hold it a little higher - not that high that he would stand up, but high enough that the other leg leaves the ground a little bit too. Jackpot. AGAIN, don't do too much of this exercise, it's great for building muscle, but it can also make them sore if you do too many repetitions every day!
4. observe your puppy and try to find situations when he would back up - it usually happens when they're moving out of your way - or sometimes when you're working on ignoring the food in the hand. You can try to sit down on the floor with treats in your hand and click first step back with hind foot. Don't wait for more than one as they usually sit down then. Click&reward the first step and reward by throwing a treat towards the dog. Rewarding at distance (by tossing a treat instead of giving it from your hand) will help you add more&more steps and more&more distance from you. At one point, switch to rewarding with a toy, it's easier to throw.
5. 2on2off - find an object big enough for the dog to go on with all 4 feet easily - maybe just put your first 4in object upside down? - Click for 2-3 legs on and then don't click the fourth one, you don't want any duration standing there! Only click again when the dog is leaving the object, try to catch him with 2 front feet on the ground and deliver the treat while he is still in this position. You want them go on an object and off immediately, stopping with front feet on the ground. Click&reward several times for a position, then say "go"/"o.k."/"free"/whatever your release word will be and throw a treat away so that he needs to leave the position to get it and click for leaving an object too. Do this enough times that the dog starts to expect the thrown treat after "go", so that then you don't need to throw it in advance, but only after he leaves the position on "go". Do not help with body language that you want him to leave after "go" - if he doesn't know it yet, go back to throwing a treat and progress more slowly.
We finally got full circles in one direction. Here’s a video. First the clockwise direction which is going better and then our first try in other direction. I should have made the latter easier for Papu, poor boy is trying so hard to pivot the direction he was rewarded earlier! And it seems I’m often clicking a bit early when he’s not actually moving. But I anyway, I think we’re getting there!
Sitting up is not going as well. As Silvia suggested I tried with nose touch above the head and that is certainly easier than with paw target. But Papu does not really sit up but stands up. We’ve done quite a many sessions of this but I feel we’re not making any progress. Any suggestions?
Actually I think the audio goes a bit ahead of the video so I’m not clicking as early as it seems. Watching it from my computer it seems much better. Not sure how I managed to mess it up while editing…
Silvia will probably have better advice, but what if you stood up instead and put your hand higher and further back? Straight above him?
Thanks Louise! I tried that and maybe he did a little better, but he’s still gets up most of the time. I’m not sure if it’s because he’s lacking the strength required or because he’s just not getting what I’d like him to do…
Pivoting is going really great now! Time to try the next step and put yourself in the picture! For the sit up, the major problem is that he jumps to your hand too quickly, before your hand is close enough. You might be able to deliver the hand to the right position quicker if you stand up and bring it from above, but you need to put it just a little bit above his nose. Maybe so little at first that he can touch it without both feet leaving the floor, maybe just one for now or even just making him shift his weight back. Once you have that, you can then put a hand one centimetre higher and you’ll have it. Putting a hand higher then is not a problem -- just focus on putting it low enough! 🙂 -- Much lower as now.
Cool, just pay attention to only click if she is still moving back! If she stops before you click, ask for some more steps first as you don’t want to click her for stopping!
we are not able to do better then this.. =(
Looks good to me! 🙂 Next step is making it less dependant on you, so don’t stop with her anymore, but sometimes keep walking, sometimes say static the whole time etc. -- just to make sure she is not reading from your body language but really searches the position on her own.
Very cool! She sure goes crazy for that ball, that was too cute!!! Getting there with pivoting too, I would wait until she can do a full circle without a treat before going to the next step though. For the paw crossing, you could now try to get the other paw crossing too as that would keep her paws more in place (if you then ask for one leg first, then another and just keep going back and fourth) -- very important with those little legs to still be able to cross them!
For a sit up, try to click the moment when she doesn’t lean on your hand. It does seem physically hard for her though, so go slowly with that one. Slowly add duration to backing up too, don’t click every step back anymore, but wait for more -- it will be easier if you reward by tossing a toy though, treats are not perfect as you can’t toss them well and fast enough. Nice 2on2off!
Greeitngs, Silvia!
I have a recall question. You posted that, “Oh, this should be easy if the other two have good recalls! Just call them all and reward them all!”. I can do that, but Hootie is always focusing all of his attention on the older dog, Jigs, and when Jigs comes right to me, Hootie stays 10 feet away with his border-collie-laser-look focused on Jigs and ready to run again. I have to work VERY hard to get him to come to me, and when he does and I touch him he immediately moves to his 10-foot away ready to run position. As long as Jigs is there Hootie will not even take his eyes off of Jigs and give me any attention at all. Such a border collie! Is there anything I can do?
Yeah, that’s somewhat different problem from the one that original poster had. In this case, I would spend some more time with just Hootie, without Jigs around and make recalls extra fun. Once he is coming running full speed to you for his toy, have Jigs in a stay on a chair while practising. Next have her stay on the floor and finally let her free, but if necessary, put Hootie on a leash first to prevent mistakes. Also, how is he with tricks when Jigs is around? Can he focus on tricks normally?
No, Hootie loses all focus when Jigs is around. Or what I should say is that all his focus moves to Jigs any time Jigs is in sight. We’ve been doing all our training without the other dogs around.
I’m anxious to try your recall suggestions! Thank you!!!
In that case, I think you need to start like we are talking with Kathy, first indoors with Hootie in a stay and Jigs doing tricks, then Jigs in a stay on a sofa and then on the floor and then moving with Hootie doing tricks -- and then the whole thing outdoor again. It takes some patience, but is well worth it, it is annoying if you can’t “unlock” those BCs eyes when you need to!
You’ve got that exactly right! Hooties breeder isn’t called “Lock Eye Border collies” for nothing! Today Hootie was sitting right next to me, locked onto Jigs. I touched Hooties ear and he suddenly looked up at me, his eyes refocused, and he seemed surprised to see me! And he was sitting right next to me! I will love working on your directions. Jigs will love it too as he’s been jealous of Hooties training time. Thank you so much!
Yeap, that’s not unusual! And what a funny coincidence my choice of “unlock” word was, I didn’t know he is from Lock Eye 🙂
Great question! I’m having this same problem with Zephyr & Elsa. Zephyr does his “BC laser look” & will not listen to me at all when Elsa is around. 🙁 But this only happens when they are outside--he’s great inside & he can focus on tricks fine inside when Elsa is right next to him. And his recalls are great with Elsa around but only when we are inside. I’m not sure how to transfer this to doing it outside. I think it’s Elsa’s quick movement that charges Zephyr because he listens fine & has great recalls when he’s outside with my slow moving Bernese. And even when Elsa’s not moving, Zephyr’s always anticipating it so he just focuses on her…waiting for her to move.
Any suggestions? Maybe I should first work on Zephyr staying still while Elsa is moving, then go back to the recall with Elsa in a stay?
Thanks!
Yeap, sounds like a good plan, start with stays with distractions of Elsa moving, then I would try tricks (outside) with distractions of Elsa first in a stay and then moving around freely and then try the recalls with Elsa in a stay, maybe on a chair or a table first as that usually makes them less interesting as when on the floor.
Great, thanks! I have another question about the stay while Elsa is moving--in the beginning is it ok to have Zephyr on a leash with me standing on the end so if he does break his stay he can’t get too far? Seems like the leash going tight if he decided to go after Elsa would be a “consequence” of him not holding a stay, not a “leash correction”…??
Thanks.
Sure, definitely use a leash first to prevent mistakes!
I forgot to name the action of touching an object with a paw. I say “touch” for a nose touch, and “paw” to shake hands. So I don’t know what verbal cue to use for a “paw-touch” and I’m very curious what cue everyone else have used… suggestions, please?
Thank you!
Bobbi & Hootie
I actually simply use “tap” for everything paw related -- like high 5, closing drawers, touching a target, paws on my shoes, floor cleaning etc. 🙂 -- Too many tricks to name them all!
That’s a good one! Thank you!
Joy made some progress with shaping especially when we work on it in the mornings. Hope to get some video done by the end of this weekend. Both girls have a great recall. Due to the ongoing bad weather no tugging videos or showing off some recalls. Also backing up with Funky needs to be done outdoors. She can back up.
For the time being Funky’s contribution to lesson 2 so far (sorry for the bad positioning of the camcorder):
Very nice pivoting! Ready for the next step! Can she do both directions? Great balance in a sit up too, I think you can ask for even more duration now. I would go to the next step with the paw crosses too, not clicking for touching your hand anymore, but only when she is touching the other paw. Great to hear Joy is making a progress too, looking forward to see the video!
2) Pivot on perch: Last time I tried to do the other side with Funky I broke the whole behavior. It’s very fluid, she loves it, but I am not pressing the other way around. I don’t know if I should name it, so can she do it on the spot without a perch before moving on with the other way around. The other way around must feel very unnatural to Funky; I tried to do it on the ground (no perch) and helping her. Joy can now pivot on a perch but I couldn’t shape it, I had to help her and still need to help.
3) Sit Pretty: Working on duration with Funky. Joy always jumps up, can’t leave her cute butt on the ground; therefore, I am working on high fives in a sit in the hope to proceed from there. Not videotaped with Joy instead a few downs, another behavior she is struggling with.
4) Back up: Working on more steps and backing up in a straight line with Funky. With Joy getting first steps.
With Joy I realized I drilled some of the behaviors (4in, pivot on perch) too much and she considered it a punishment. I tried to shape new behaviors and she caught on nicely. Her attention spam got a lot better as she didn’t feel punished with the behaviors we got stuck and I either helped her or dropped it for the time being. The same applies to tugging with Funky. I got carried away, too obsessed and Funky really considered tugging a punishment. Now we are finding the joy. She doesn’t like to mix up food and toys but I do end sessions with some tugging. Tugging on its own is a lot better, like one is used from a Malinois (luckily again).
Funky
Joy
Really great duration on a sit up with Funky and very nice back up! Great pivoting in one direction too, beautiful heeling position -- definitely time to name it and do some “glued to the leg” exercises (you moving away around the target and her following) and then fade the target and add more side and forward movements to circling too. Once she doesn’t need the target for this side anymore, you can try to bring the target back and play with the other direction some. One direction is always easier as they have one lead leg, but it’s important for their balance to be able to do both.
The tugging, try to make it more like a game instead of like the exercise. Try tugging on your knees, “fighting” her with the other arm, growling and giving her a feeling she is winning all the time, moving after her and letting her win a toy often. Don’t have any food on you when you play with her, do it in a completely separate session and end a session by letting her win the toy or by stealing it when she is not into the game enough, don’t exchange for a treat. I would also make it more about the chasing, have it a strong and have her chase and grab it and then tug some, then try to make the toy escape again etc. The toy must behave more like a prey.
With Joy, some very nice pivoting already! Getting there with backing up! Too bad you didn’t tape sit up too… Your hand is probably too high if she stands up… Maybe try a hand touch to a hand that is just barely above her nose… So that she can touch it just stretching on her toes first -- and then high enough that one leg leaves the floor -- and only then trying to get the other leg off too. For downs, keep working like this, tossing her several treats in a row once she is a down position to keep her in a down longer and let her know it’s a cool position to take and hold.
Thanks Silvia. Funky does a nice heel already. Since she is going to do competitive obedience I work her in UK heelwork. I can try to videotape that (try because I am having a rough time with the camcorder and taping the whole thing). Best is to work the dog in a wide circle.
Growling, on my knees, a fight… totally won’t work with Funky when I am mixing rewards. I tried it and that’s when she considered tugging total punishment. So when I am ending a session with a game of tug for the time being all she has to do is to bite into it. Luckily we have session without food where she tug like crazy. Over time I hope she can enjoy the same tugging during a session I am using food. Believe I was hugely frustrated, disappointed to the point of giving up with tugging. She comes from lines that are worked in French Ring …
With Joy I will try the sit pretty and videotape it. It’s on my list to do. Lesson 3 will be much easier for her 😉
Wow, Rachel! Funky is so coordinated and elegant! Great job!
Here is our progress with lesson 2.
Pre had a fever last weekend, but it only slowed him down for a couple of days 😉
Wow, very nice pivoting movement already! Keep shaping for more, rewarding him with a head turned away from you to eventually get a full circle. Very cool paw touches, looks ready to try a sit up!
Hi Silvia,
Pre had his first puppy Kindergarten class last night. He had the fastest recall in the class! I could call him away from playing with the other puppies, and he did the restrained recall lightning fast, slamming into me like a rocket and knocking me off balance!! 🙂 he also had great focus and attention when doing a bit of training like sit and down, probably because he is used to training with Buddy around, he didn’t really get that distracted by the other pups. We had so much fun!! I have been playing more than training with him and it’s amazing how that carries over into the actual training. Thank you so much for your wonderful advice and great classes! 🙂
Still working on frog, he does it a lot on his own and I just mark it with my voice. His favourite game is playing with the waterhose, not very portable, but super for recall practice 😉
Very cute! I always loved playing with waterhose, but so far, didn’t yet get any of my dogs excited about it, so I have noone to play with! 🙁
Sounds like he was rocking that puppy class! 🙂 Great job! Keep it all about fun and play and I’m sure everything will be easy. Good boy Pre!
🙂
We’re still working on the exercises from this lesson, so I’m wondering if I could ask you a question about it? 🙂 When we do the pivoting exercise he can now take one spin around the box, but only when I stand up and sort of lean towards him. It’s luring in a way, since he doesn’t walk a full circle (or even half a circle) if I just sit next to him, but perhaps it’s ok considering the aim of the exercise? What do you think? Should he be able to do it even if I sit down before we progress to the next step?
Yes, if he will circle nicely and smoothly with just a gentle body cue, without actually luring him with your movement or a hand, then I think you can go for the next step. You can always still revisit circling if you see he would need to be even more independent -- but I think he will be fine.