As you did such a great job with your first homework, you're getting some more this time 🙂 I again marked the ones to focus on first. Post wherever you end up, we learn the most through problems, so you want to post those too! 🙂 So try to view other students' videos and my comments to them too!
1. experiment with different toys and ways to play with your dog. Tape his favourite game to give some new ideas to other participants (and me!!!). From my dogs, Le LOVES to chase things on a string, especially squeaky toys, plastic bags and everything else that makes sound! La hates squeaky toys, but goes crazy for real fur and ladder. Bi loves tugging - on anything BUT real fur, she finds it really gross and won't touch it. - Not that I would be trying in that direction either, only extra durable toys can handle her bite! Bu doesn't care so much about what toy we use, but she definitely wants ME involved: running and making silly noises. She also loves when she has a toy and I'm pretending I want to steal it from her, but am afraid to do so.
2. instead of a plate, find something a little higher this time to give them a better feeling of where to keep their front legs, click first for two front feet on an object (should be easy, you want the same thing as on a plate) and then observe hind legs and click for ANY movement (even just a weight shift) and then shape from there for more&more steps around the object. I first click both directions and once I get half of a circle in both directions, start clicking one direction only and reward with a head away from me in order to get a full circle - turning the head away from you in the hardest part, that's why you want to reward with head away at this point. The final goal are full circles in both directions, with you static (don't help the dog to circle with your movement!) - I think those that have my heeling video can already do that exercise, though 🙂
3. take the plate and hold it in different positions to see if the dog understands it's the same thing even when you hold it higher, under the angle, even vertical, to his left/right etc. Try when he is standing, sitting and lying down. If you didn't name touching an object with a paw, it's time to do it now! Also, try to change objects for this exercise, sometimes also use a hand as a paw target. Once he can do all that, you're ready for next two tricks we will get out of the paw touch:
- crossing paws: tell the puppy to down (or shape it if he doesn't know it yet), then hold the plate (or, you can use another, smaller and more convenient object, like a plastic lid or a piece of paper) close to the left paw and only reward touching it with left paw. Then hold it closer and closer to right paw, still only reward left paw touches, then hold it on right paw and eventually on the other side, jackpoting the touches of left paw on a right paw now in order to eventually get rid of a target.
- sit up: tell the puppy to sit (or shape it if he doesn't know it yet), then put the plate (or just use the hand if he will recognize that as a target) low enough first that he can reach it with a paw, but then every next time, hold it a little higher - not that high that he would stand up, but high enough that the other leg leaves the ground a little bit too. Jackpot. AGAIN, don't do too much of this exercise, it's great for building muscle, but it can also make them sore if you do too many repetitions every day!
4. observe your puppy and try to find situations when he would back up - it usually happens when they're moving out of your way - or sometimes when you're working on ignoring the food in the hand. You can try to sit down on the floor with treats in your hand and click first step back with hind foot. Don't wait for more than one as they usually sit down then. Click&reward the first step and reward by throwing a treat towards the dog. Rewarding at distance (by tossing a treat instead of giving it from your hand) will help you add more&more steps and more&more distance from you. At one point, switch to rewarding with a toy, it's easier to throw.
5. 2on2off - find an object big enough for the dog to go on with all 4 feet easily - maybe just put your first 4in object upside down? - Click for 2-3 legs on and then don't click the fourth one, you don't want any duration standing there! Only click again when the dog is leaving the object, try to catch him with 2 front feet on the ground and deliver the treat while he is still in this position. You want them go on an object and off immediately, stopping with front feet on the ground. Click&reward several times for a position, then say "go"/"o.k."/"free"/whatever your release word will be and throw a treat away so that he needs to leave the position to get it and click for leaving an object too. Do this enough times that the dog starts to expect the thrown treat after "go", so that then you don't need to throw it in advance, but only after he leaves the position on "go". Do not help with body language that you want him to leave after "go" - if he doesn't know it yet, go back to throwing a treat and progress more slowly.
And here is some playtime recording -- she basically plays with everything especially if I am involved, her favorite at home is a shaggy piece of leather and fur, but she also goes for a ball or anything else. But she goes nuts when we play with the longe whip with a toy attached -- we have to be very careful as she jumps and lunges after it without seeing many things in her way plus I don’t want her to do many hard turns at this young age.
That longe with the toy at the end is Pippa’s favorite too, but she plays with it so differently! Loves to try to stare it down BC style, then POUNCE! 🙂
Cool, she really plays nicely! I don’t think I ever saw such a playful crazy Tibet Terrier, so I’m really impressed! I see she is now playing even with treats around as I saw you were rewarding her to fetch, that’s great too!
Yes, I played more with her the last week and it seems to work. However, I’m not yet sure if she will go after something for fun when we train a trick, only to bring it back and be rewarded -- we will see.
All of my Tibetians were/are really active dogs -- Szia, my black devil, is a perpetuum mobile, jumping, running, looking for trouble 24/7 -- a little bit like a BC but without the will-to-please -- she drives me crazy sometimes.
Concerning the Tibetians -- only few people still see the tough and incorrupt herding and guard dog that the Tibetian originally was but only know the show dogs with more coat than any dog can handle. I keep the coat clipped and they can run off in the mud whenever they want…
Here is a short impression of what I mean: Dirty dog = happy dog 😉
Great! A friend of mine got a puppy from native Tibet Terrier hoping to get more-crazy-less-coat dog 🙂 -- but I don’t think she has got that much intensity and action as your puppy is showing. So I’ll definitely refer her to you when she is searching for the next one!
Here is Trumpet’s new trick thanks to Silvia’s great suggestion :-). I just point to the floor and say “Get the spider”.
Cool!!! Maybe try with a toy reward now, to get even more of a pounce?
Sit up (Stick’em Up) and Back up (Beep Beep Beep). He already knew these but I would like to add some duration to the Stick’em Up. He throws his feet up then right back down again. How can I add duration?
Yeap, he seems to think the idea is to go up and down with his paws! Try having the treats ready and then reach in so quickly that you still catch him in a position: maybe front feet won’t be up so nicely anymore, but as long as they’re off the ground as you reward, he should get the idea. even if he leans on your hand some with his nose as he takes the treats, that’s o.k. at the beginning. Nice backing up too, you can try adding even more distance -- by rewarding at the distance. Try tossing a treat, or, even better, a toy towards him (between his front paws), that really helps with adding distance.
Will do! Thanks Silvia 🙂
And here is what I call “perch work”. It’s going well but I can’t seem to get him to come all the way to my leg.
Yeap, those last steps when they need to take their eyes off to bypass you are the hardest. You can help some by always rewarding with the head away from you: expecting a reward there makes it easier for them to complete the circle. OR, you could stop rewarding one direction for now to see if you can get more steps in the other direction.
This is where we’ve got real problems. Crossing paws. As you can see, this session did not go well. He whacks his paws around without any precision (and scratches my hand/arm), and he keeps going into frog dog too, lol.
He sure likes the frog dog! 🙂 To avoid both problems, you can maybe try crossing paws in a sit position first. He can’t do a frog then and he can’t use both paws at the time then, so you can use a bigger target and keep your hands safe. You could also use a cooking spoon or something for a target to keep your hands further, I used it with Bi who was really slamming everywhere with her paws -- precision is not her strongest point either 🙂
I had a really good training session with Tat BEFORE dinner, on the various tricks, but then tried to take videos AFTER dinner. Not a good idea. She was not into it. This is the best I could come up with, because at least for the back-up I use a toy. Her sit up is coming along nicely, as is the crossing paws. For the perch she is not moving lateraly yet. She will put her two front paws on then I click as soon as she lifts a hind foot but it’s always in the direction towards the upturned bowl. The lightbulb has not come on yet but it will soon I’m sure. She is at least lifting a hind foot.
Here is her backing up. At this point I am rewarding any backward movement whether she is lying down or standing. I will eventually want to separate the two into two tricks: Back up and Scootch.
Very nice back up! She sure seems to like this one! And yes, pivoting can take a while and foot up is a good first step. At this stage you can still reward a lot by tossing a treat away as that often gives you more action and more movement as they get back on the perch: you definitely don’t want them to stand there and stare for too long!
Silvia here is a video of my first day working on lesson 2.
One video 3 exercises.
1) Sit Up, cue is pretty, i had trained it before, but clearly not on stim control hence the down and the twirling in the air behavior
2) Hind end rotation. I made the mistake of training this last year only one direction so i am painfully trying to go the other way now. I read your suggestion of using a wall and also a different object after i had done this so i’ll try using a wall (instead of my leg as a wall)
3) 2on2off -- first time ever so please any feedback is welcome. i did not do the “GO!” part yet.
Great! The sit up is too cute, love those paws up in the air! He has a really great balance, so you can add even more duration to the position now. Or, you can challenge him some more by having him do it on a balance disk or a ball or simply a sofa or anything soft that will challenge his balance even more. And yes, a wall might be better as with the leg, you are putting a pressure on him to move away. Nice start of 2on2off, you got enough duration that you could start with the go part too. Once he has an idea on the position, help less with your body, try to stay further and to the side so that he doesn’t cue from your position but really searches for the 2on2off position independently.
Love your dog--so responsive! The “pretty” trick is wonderful--love the alert and high-front legs positioning. I’m going to steal your cue and use “pretty” with Dash too. I always used “beg” before, but that sounds too slave/master for 2011. I was looking for a replacement cue, and yours wins. 🙂
I love your “pretty” too. It’s so sweet! 🙂
I have train this trick also before and our verbal cue is “süß” -- that’s the german word for sweet! 😉
Hootie is getting a bit confused as to when he should “Paw” and when he should “Nose Touch”. Should I name them both so he knows which one I want? Or will it suffice to present my hand (with no verbal cue) for the Nose Touch, and ask verbally for his “Paw” or “Other Paw”. How will that translate to using a target in agility?
Other than that he’s learning these tricks so fast my head’s spinning! This is just amazing and sooooooooo fun. Thank you, thank you, Silvia!
Yeap, once they get the concept, it’s like a snowball: they just pick up every next thing faster, can’t stop them anymore! 🙂 And yes, I name both nose and paw target as many tricks build up on either one or another, so it’s good to have those “basic” tricks on verbal cues. I do paw and nose touches on verbal cue to targets and my hands and feet. I don’t use either of the two for agility though, but if you want to use a nose touch for 2on2off, then you need to teach it to a target too, not just your hand -- if that was your question?
Thanks Silvia, I also had problems with this, so we’ll start naming both nose touches and paw touches now. 🙂 (Even though it’s going to be tough for me since I’m terrible with adding cues.. 😉
Yes, that was my question. I would like him to touch a target with his nose on the 2o/2o in order to get his back rounded (to protect it when the time comes for him to do a big tall A-frame). At what point in the 2o/2o training should I add the target?
I’ll start adding the verbal to both the nose touch and the paw right away. Sounds great! And now you’ve given us another trick -- -- paw and nose touches to a target, and hands AND feet! Cool!! Hootie and I both thank you.
You can add a nose touch as soon as you have the understanding of the position and the release word. And yeap, there is always something new to teach, that’s why tricks and agility are so much fun!
Dash (8 mos. Papillon) can now do all tricks for both weeks, though not all are on cue and bi-directional yet.
Our problem is that he’s becoming more frantic/hyper/frustrated with each practice. I think the issue is that he already knew quite a few tricks involving plates and platforms: backing up to a platform and putting rear legs up; nose touches; run to a platform and lie down on it; lured pivots. Now we have many new tricks that involve platform-like bowls and plates.
I’m using a different object for each trick, but he still confuses them.
When I bring out his “4-in plate,” he lies on it, backs up to it, hits it, flips it over, digs it, touches with one or both paws, pivots around it, nose touches it… and eventually does 4-in, which I click & treat. He will then do 4-in repeatedly for C/Ts.
I put the plate away and practice other things for a while. Then I bring out his “upside-down pivot bowl.” Now he does 4-in on top of it, jumps over it, sits on it, paw touches it, etc…. and eventually pivots.
He acts very frantic for the food and a bit stressed… even panting. “We were doing 4-in mom! And I’m doing it again on this bowl! I’m trying super hard and doing it perfectly! But you’re not giving treats now, no matter how well I’m doing 4-in!”
In fact, he’s acting a lot like my BC, who hates to be “wrong,” is easily frustrated, and is also food crazy like Dash.
I’m using kibble for Dash’s training sessions, and he LOVES it. He has tiny kibbles, so he probably gets 100 treats per training session, one at a time. He’s hungry when we train, which could be making it worse. Would it help to feed him half his dinner… then start our training 15 minutes later?
Or feed him his full dinner and then try training only with toys? (He likes toys, but I’ve always trained new things with food so I can give many quick rewards).
Right now I’m working on almost every trick (for this week) in every session. Is it better to work only one trick every day, until that trick is on cue? Then start another trick? What are all of you guys doing? How many different tricks do you practice per session?
Will Dash’s frantic “try every trick” behavior extinguish by itself as he starts to learn the verbal cues for each trick?
Thanks in advance for any advice!
Very good questions. I also have a dog who becomes frantic offering me everything under the sun. Whippets hate repetition so oftentimes if they feel they’ve done it enough times they just switch tricks on their own and start offering me something else. The more eager the dog, the more stuff they throw at me.
When I’m working on new tricks, I start a session with a new one, then make a play break and then move to another trick that they know to some degree already AND looks different (for example: one includes the object and the other doesn’t). I might finish with some known tricks that are on a verbal cue already. I wouldn’t do too many new tricks in the same session, that is too confusing. So yes, definitely put things on verbal cues and only work on one or two new things at the time. You will still get “try it all” when starting with something new, but my dogs are already very systematic about it: they throw me some nose, head and paws action to see what I’ll pick and then go further with whatever I clicked. There are many tricks that I never named but can get them with 3 clicks in the right direction.
Hi Silvia,
That made a big difference--thanks! Today’s session was the best ever. I used a taller bowl for the pivot (a recommendation you made in another comment), and we got our first 100% shaped complete 360 today.
Then we did roll-over (which is an old trick for him) and had a play break.
Then we got out my mini-teeter for 2o/2o. He went from treats to toys to treats perfectly with full motivation and good concentration. No silliness or “trying everything.”
Finally, we tried “frog,” which is probably his worst trick. Before, we could only get one leg, on his side. Today, he offered both legs, and I was able to reduce from a pillow to just carpeting in one session, with great seal legs.
So 3 new tricks, 1 old trick and a playbreak worked much better than 10 new tricks each session.
Great!!! That was really fast, getting 360 degrees of pivoting and two-legged frog, what a smart little dog!
I thought yesterday the 360 was still 2 weeks in the future. All I could get was maybe 2 steps to the side. But Dash also tried “running a circle around the bowl” putting an occasional foot on it, which I also clicked & treated.
Today, I used a taller bowl, and it suddenly was clear to him. He put both feet on and almost immediately started giving 360 degree rotations. I’m not using any body language or cues. Just standing up with the bowl on the floor. I think the key was a taller bowl and me standing up instead of staying on the floor with him. (Both are suggestions you’ve made in the comments).
Great! Standing up really makes a difference yes: a not for anybody still struggling with pivoting!
Hi Sharon, wow, what a genius your little boy is, congratulations! I am curious what you now used as “base” -- how tall is it approximately? I will try with my puppy, too, maybe it is easier for her 🙂
My dog is a tall Papillon, 11.5 inches tall at the withers (29 cm).
The thing that did NOT work for us was a normal soup bowl. That one was 2 inches (5 cm). The one that worked was a heavy plastic mixing bowl that was 5.5 inches (14 cm).
So basically, a bowl half of his withers height worked for us. Because it’s quite tall and I don’t want to strain his back, I did fewer reps than I was trying with the small bowl.
Hi everybody,
I tried a taller object, too -- she definitely shifts more weight to the hind legs, but still tries to lean forward. She does one quarter yet, but I think it is the quarter she needs to look from one hand to the other… I keep the hand behind the back and I reward from different hands.
Silyia, you wrote you reward with the head away from you -- could you please explain how I should do that? It if hold the treat on the other side (after she got her click, so no luring), she steps off the object. If I throw the treat twice, she will jump off the object right after each click. The advantage is thyt she runs off and runs back directly and depending on the direction, I get a turn in my direction.
Should I reward only in position holding the treat behind her (head way from me) or throw the treat and let her jump off?
Thanks for any comments!
Verena
That’s some very nice movement already! At the beginning, I do more tossing to get them off the object and get some movement as they get back, but at the stage you’re at, I’m mostly rewarding in a position with a head turned away. I didn’t mean all the way away: it’s normal she steps off if you go with a treat behind her back. Deliver the treat at her ribs so that she can get it easily by just turning the head to the side (not all the way around). You can then also click&reward head turns as after the head turn, legs often follow too. Try to include her head in a video next time too so that I can see how you’re rewarding.