For more on running contacts, it's best to join running contacts class or get a Running Contacts DVD. This page is meant for those who just have a quick question or want to show their finished product - you are very welcome to do so, it still brings a smile to my face when I see a beautiful running contact, it's something addictive about it. It is on times frustrating as well... - but it all makes the end result even sweeter. So... Happy training, everybody!
 Silvia Trkman is known for bringing every dog, from her first dog on, to the very top of the sport. Her dogs are known for great speed, tight turns, running contacts and long and injury-free careers. Silvia is in agility since 1992 and is– 3x World Champion (with two different dogs)
– 5x European Open winner, with 4 different dogs (Lo, La, Bu, Le)!!!
– National Championships podium and World Team member with every dog she’s ever had – National Champion for 22-times (with 5 different dogs of 3 different breeds) – World Team member for 19-times (mostly with at least two dogs at the time – sometimes four 🙂 ) |
Hello Silvia
What you say about Kites speed at the running contacts? He is 7 1/2 month on this Video (it’s from 08.03.2011).
What can I do better?
thank you
Hm, not sure what your plan for his contacts is? Both 2on2off and running or? Even if so, I think it’s too early to do those on the same object, he is clearly confused for a couple of tries and it’s only the last try that looks like a running contact. Only do running on a plank now and if you want to train 2on2off too, train it on another object that doesn’t look like a plank.
Hi Silvia
I have a problem with my dog’s contacts, or rather what happens before them and I was hoping for some advice. I had wanted to teach running contacts, but because I am new to agility, I let the anti-running contact environment I train in persuade me to teach 2on2off (for dogwalk, but he automatically transferred them to the see-saw too). Now my dog has 100% reliable glue-like contacts. I really regret adding these, because he has slowed down so much because of them.
I feel it is less confusing to the dog if I keep them instead of retraining (for the dogwalk -- I am trying to get rid of them for see-saw beause he has other seesaw issues anyway, but he seems contact brain-washed now). How can I get him to speed up into the contact position on the dog walk? He is a dog that worries alot about getting things right (I don’t ever correct he because he is naturally nervous), and prefers food to toys. I realise that he is like this because that is how I trained -- for accuracy first, not speed.
Hi, Silvia!
We have some questions about RC, hope you’ll have some time to answer them 🙂
1. How many attempts are you doing for one session? Sometimes we are doing only 3-4(if they are perfect), some times 10-15 or more if they are not so good. We ends session if dog make at least 3 perfect RC successively.
2. you wrote, that you are using more toys, no food anymore. We are teaching with food, because I afraid, that dog will jump to get toy faster and will play with it even if he is jumped contact zone. What do you think about it?
3. my dog is reteached from 2*2, but she is doing pretty nice, no jumps at all. Until she saw border-collie, who was doing agility near us. She don’t like this BC, so she way unconcentrated and starts to jump. We made a lot of attempts until she starts not to jump, but to run(but we have to put BR away). So, next time this BC or another dog can be near to us and I don’t know what to do, if she will start jumping — make plank lower, or not to do RC at all, or run until she will start to think how to get jack-pot?
There is our video, she is doing pretty nice without irritants.
Sorry, I was not login yesterday. Have read onve again your FAQ on RC, but didn’t find answers to my questions. Hope, you will find some free time to answer.
Thanks in advance!
Lidia
I already answered yesterday to the other message you sent… Anyway, here it is again:
1. I guess about 15 – less if they’re bad My logic is obviously different as yours – I’ll stop and rethink what went wrong if things go wrong and do some more when things go right. I think my dogs would, once they got the pattern that a training stops if things go right, start doing mistakes on purpose I don’t understand why you think end of training is rewarding for the dog??? I certainly know it’s not for my dogs.
2. I prefer toys as it tells me how the contacts will look like when the dog is running his maximum speed and is highly excited because that’s how they will be in competition. I don’t care if they get a ball in each case, because I know they’re smart enough to know the difference between just getting a toy and a click+a toy+ playing.
3. don’t do it. Instead of RC, work on her ability to ignore other dogs and focus on you, do tricks and have fun.
Thank a lot for answers, Silvia!
1. maybe I write a little bit incorrect. If dog make 3-5 perfect RC we are just going to another obstacles. So, dog is continue working and having fun, play etc.
I think, we too much afraid of mistakes, because we have only first dogs, who are teaching RC and don’t have a lot of experience with resolving a problems.
2. I understand you message. What do you think, is it possible to change reward from food to ball? My dog likes ball very much, and running in full speed to catch it. Last training I tried to do RC with moving ball, both tries were running and last one was perfect. But she already know, that after plank will be food, so she catch the ball and then running to find food))
Then I teach Cik&cap I use only moving toys, so maybe I have to use it also in RC? It is better reward for my dog, I think. She is not running in full speed to food, better is to moving ball.
Thank you so much for all your methods and advices! Agility is so much fun with your methods))
Ah, that makes more sense, keep training, but something else 🙂 And yes, sure, you can try switching, she will get used to a new form of a reward. Her speed actually looks great also with food, you can do some sessions with food and some with a ball and see how it looks like. Good luck, looks like you are on a right way already!
Hi! I want to know if I understand it, the step of my dog
in the video where I put the question, I think the pace is not correct,Why throw the front legs too far…right or wrong?
Stop watching front feet. ? tries are all o.k. The last one isn’t because hind feet are together and there is another one you marked with o.k. even though hind feet were together. You need to watch hind feet. Please see some videos and pictures on this site.
therefore, my dog, merge the hind legs the last video you said and in the penultimate….right?(the rest is all ok)
sorry…at 1 minute 47 seconds
Hi Silvia,
I am working on the running contacts with my 15 month old BC puppy. I started working on the flat plank about 5 days ago. I am having some difficulty. I’ve tried being in different positions while releasing her across the plank; from behind, to the side, a bit of a lead out, running with, and standing out front. She only seems to run across in normal striding when I am beside or behind her (I can run with) but she generally leaps the last stride if I lead out too far or stand out in front.
My question: Should I only work her from the places that I think she will be successful? At what point should I challenge her with different positioning? Is it okay to have someone restrain her?
Thanks for your help,
Julie
I’m having the exact same problem with Maia. If I run with her, she does well; if I lead out, she tends to leap off the end. If I call her to me, she tends to leap off as well. Looking forward to hearing the solution to this…
Ania
Yes, at this point you should definitely only practice the situations where she is successful. Changing position might take her attention from the plank to you, so it’s not a good idea anyway. At the beginning, I’m all the time restraining the dog, throwing a ball and then just staying there to make sure I see&click the correct performance and I do more than 90% of training that way. I will sometimes run along later on (when already close to final height), but I never recall to front as I will never do that on real dog-walk. However, at this point, the dog already knows what his job is and I never saw a dog being confused about the handler move at all.
Hi Silvia,
I am so happy that my friend told me about this website! I have a 2.5 year old sheltie named Maia. She is my first agility dog, so we are learning together. Everyone around here trains the 2on2off, so that is what we learned first. I did not do too much training with her on it because she is very smart and caught on quickly. What I did notice is that she was starting to slow down on the declines. I did not like that. Ever since I learned about you and watched all your videos and DVDs I decided I wanted to retrain to RC. The 2on2off is not fully engrained in her yet so I think I have a good chance of retraining her.
I have a few questions.
1. It’s winter here in Canada, so I don’t have lots of space to train. I do have a room that is 19 feet by 16 feet that I use for trianing. I can put a plank there, but it is not enough room for her to run really fast over. She trots across it and not runs across. Is this still a good idea?
2. On warmer days (-15 celcius), I did take a dog walk plank outside and had her run over that. I’ve noticed that she will run across nicely most of the time, but if she is really excited and is running really fast, she will jump the end. How do I correct for this? I do not have a video yet. I will try and take one this week to post on here.
3. On your videos and most of the other people’s video’s I’ve noticed that you talk to the dog when they are running the plank or DW. Is that necessary? We train here to run very quietly. (although, having bought your Cik/Cap DVD, I’m training the tight turns on a verbal as well as positional cues 🙂 I’m very, very excited! Maia is learing the tight turns really well and very quickly)
I just really wanted to thank you for being so kind and helpful. I am so glad that I’ve found out about you. I train on my own right now, mainly from DVDs, so I am really looking forward to your internet courses that I can learn from over the summer! THANK YOU!!!!!!!
Ania and Maia
Hi Ania, her are the answers to your questions, I hope it helps a little:
1. No, if you’re only getting a trot (or a slow gallop), then don’t do it, it’s contra-productive, getting full speed is always first step (don’t even bother with the plank until you have the speed).
2. Definitely do NOT correct for speed!!! Forget about the plank, find way to make her as excited as possible and run her maximum speed, tape her, watch the tape and then try to get this very same picture on long carpet that you eventually change for a wide, thin plank. When the dog is really running full speed (chasing a rabbit), they do NOT jump as jumping up in the air is NOT the fastest way to move forward!!! From what you write, my guess is that she is not running full speed even when she is excited and running fast. You want her even more excited and even faster!
3. No, it’s not necessary, we just love to talk because we can 🙂 As giving timely information is that important in agility, I never understood why one would choose to only limit himself to body language when you can do both. The more info you can give, the better, especially with a fast dog! Sounds like you’re on a good way with cik&cap, I’m sure seeing the advantage of it will make you talk more&more 🙂
Thank you for the reply. I’ve been reading over all the posts on here (I’m not quite done all 541 comments yet 🙂 ) but I’m a little confused. I’ve been using a stationary target with a treat on it. From what I’ve read, it seems you prefer a toy now? Maia will not run fast towards a toy. She will if a frizbee or a ball is thrown -- but that is her reward. So how do I not reward her if she jumps? If I throw the ball after she runs the plank, she will look at me, and not forward. If I just leave a toy, even the ball, infront of her, she will not run fast to it. So is it ok for me to still use a treat, if I use a really, really good treat or should I just throw the ball?
I will video her stide tomorrow and see what she does. From what I’ve seen today at the park, she runs with her hind legs very close together. Thank you for the suggestion of video taping her running so I can learn what her stride looks like.
Yes, I always start with a thrown toy now as most dogs won’t run full speed to a stationary treat or toy and then people train at 70% of speed and then the behaviour falls apart as soon as you put the dog-walk on a course and the dog gets excited and starts to really run. Again, you can’t train running contacts without getting the running first! I don’t mind if the dog gets the toy every time, at this stage, getting the speed is my major focus. Of course, I make a big deal about good tries and just take the toy and throw it again for the bad tries and dogs are definitely smart enough to know the difference. Not running full speed is definitely much bigger problem as getting the toy every time 🙂
HI!Today I hope to have seen well, as my dog runs
look your own opinion
I await your own opinion.My dog’s legs are separate, I do not understand where I went wrong, if I’m wrong
Your dog is doing great, I just said you were watching for the wrong thing. If you want a more detailed and constant feedback, please join the running contacts class that will be starting soon. There are thousands of people using my method now and I’m happy to help and review a video here and there, but I can’t watch every session of those thousands dogs, sorry. That’s why I’m opening this class now: for those, who want more help.
Our running contacts at the moment. Any thoughts?
Looks good! At this point, it would be good to start varying her starting position, though. Would be good if you could start her further back as that will give you a performance closer to a real thing.
OK. Thanks! 😀
Hi Silvia,
We went back to the flat plank to train better hind feet separation as you suggested she needed, which has improved. At times now she sort of comes off the side of the plank as she nears the end…doesn’t leap, but runs off towards the right. This may be due to something I am doing, perhaps poor timing of reward or direction of throw or something, I am not 100% sure. Here is a video of where we are now, do you have any suggestions based on what you see? Should we move onto raising the board a little or do we still have some work to do at this height?
I wouldn’t worry about going to the side, it goes away with higher plank. I think it’s mostly your throws that make her do that. In general, try to throw sooner, meaning before she is starting. For example: first try is just perfect. Then on 0:23, you throw too late, she looks back at you and leave the plank with hind feet together: not so good. Definitely something you want to pay attention to. But yes, you can have one end a little bit.
Thanks -- very good points! I see exactly what you mean when she turns her head at 0:23, she shifts her weight and it does take her sideways. I can fix that with my throws being timed better, I will start throwing quicker. 🙂 It also does tend to close her feet when she turns to look and leaves the plank -- when she is going straight she does much better. I will keep an eye on that. When she has open feet she is beautiful to watch run! I want more beautiful more often! 🙂 Thanks!
My concern with a late toy is not leaving the plank, that’s not an issue, my concern is that she is looking back and jumping off. You don’t want her to be checking back with you on a contact, you need forward focus, that’s why you’re throwing a toy in a first place.
Ok -- got it -- it is more clear now. I really appreciate all your help and feedback, it has helped us a lot!! thank you, I have realized through this that she tracks the toy a lot, and the quicker I can get it out in front of her the better. She is willing to drive forward, but not so much if the reward is behind her :o)
Smart dog!
Hi,
Ok, so I took your advice and taped Maia just running on the flat. It seems to me that she has a very long stride, and without the slow motion, it looks like she is jumping. Her feet tend to be close together.
Then I put down a 1 cm thick plank for her to run across. Here is the video of our first session using a ball. I was UNABLE to click her though because she was so fast that I had no idea if she jumped or not and I don’t think she would pay any attention to the click anyway because she was so focused on getting the ball.
What do you think?
(NOTE: the yellow portion of the plank in this video is only 1 foot long, not 2 feet like it would be in competition, so on some runs it looks like she missed the yellow, but in reality if it was 2 feet she would have made it)
PS. You were right, it is more fun to ‘talk’ to the dog! If you notice, I started encouraging her by try 5! 🙂
Great job! I think her hind feet are well separated. By together, I mean in the same line: hers are one more forward and one more behind, that’s very good! 9 and 12 are definitely perfect, you should jackpot those. Missing the contact is no big deal at this point, it’s unrealistic to expect the dog to know where is the end of the plank and what to do there, all you need at this point is running, but you can of course jackpot the lowest hits. I do click already at this point, to bring their attention to what they’re doing at the end of the plank, but yes, it’s hard 🙂 You can for now just mark it with !yes” if that’s easier. Have fun!
I noticed this dog does have great foot separation -- my dogs foot separation is not as good as this. Things happen so quickly during the running it is often hard to see, throw, click etc…and really know how the dog did. It is often in slowmo after playingback on the computer that I can see the performance.
Is it of any use to shape hind feet separation away from the plank? Meaning teach dog to stand in position with feet split and then hope behaviour generalizes to running or do you train all as one behaviour on the plank for best results?
I understand to jackpot the great tries with good feet separation….but when when you have a dog that rarely offers this and is more likely to have hind feet in line, it becomes difficult to capture and make progress. What are your thoughts on this?
I don’t think shaping the dog to stand that or another way could transfer to full speed running, it’s completely different thing. You can shape it only when the dog is running. But as I said, you’re getting perfectly good hind feet separation when you throw in time. If you throw too late or too close and the dog is checking back or already stopping to grab that toy, it’s perfectly normal hind feet are together.
This makes perfect sense…..thank you! I just wondered if I could have done better by trying something else. For example, she would offer this hind feet greatness not so dependant on my throwing speed. lol Maybe asking too much! I will hold up my end of the partnership, and then she can hold up hers! Thanks again!