O.k., time for your first homework!
1. find a way to make your dog run as fast as he can, tape him from the side and study his striding in slow motion or even frame by frame: how far apart his hind feet are, how far forward hind feet reach over front feet, how long and high the stride is, how his back look like and where his head is: many people think you want low head for running contacts, but in fact, you want the head look exactly the same as when running full speed in the fields 🙂
2. have a dog run over the plank, tape him from the side and compare it with the video above - you can tape it at an angle you're currently at. If you're just starting, restrain the dog before your plank, carpet or whatever you're using, throw a toy and release. Slowly bring the dog further away from the plank to really have them come to the plank with full speed. You don't need to overdo the distance, especially if you have long plank/carpet, as finding the plank could be problematic or the dog before you add some more height on it. Mark anything that looks like running in the fields from the first video, jackpot when feet are close to the end of a plank/carpet. Don't forget to click it or at least mark it with your voice! I prefer clicking, but you can also first use a voice and start clicking later, when you know your dog's stride better and can predict it better.
As we already discussed in comments before, we're for now throwing a toy in advance, letting the dog chase it, in order to get full speed. So yes, the dog is rewarded every time with a ball - so make sure that you really make the best tries even more special, use excitement in your voice, a play of tug on his favourite toy or food if that's his real preference - in short: make a party about the really good ones and don't worry about not so good ones - just throw that ball again! 🙂
3. to make it easier for the dog to understand what you're clicking for on that plank, we'll be teaching some tricks that are the best to help them understand how to use their feet and that you might be clicking them for using them. The two things you will try this time is cavaletti work - walking the dog over drawers or boxes on the floor - and teaching the dog to step with front feet on an object and clicking for any movements of hind feet: the final goal is a full circle in both directions, but first click even for just a weight shift and then go from there.
Post a video with all 3 assignments, first two also in slow motion please! This is a good check-up for those who are already running their dogs on a raised plank and a good stride-study that will help you see and mark the correct striding better for those just starting.
Also, read through the comments and see the videos in introduction page, you can learn a lot through videos and comments of others. Once you see your dog is running nicely, with an even stride, hind feet separation and hind feet reaching further from front feet (see discussion and video on that we had in comments!), you can put a brick or something under one end of the plank and have them run over slightly elevated plank - I'll tell you when you're ready based on the videos you'll send.
Left front foot just left the ground, hind feet reaching forward - this is what I mean by hind feet reaching over where the front feet were.
And this is what I mean by hind feet separation: hind feet hitting two different spots as far apart as possible (vs. staying parallel, hitting the same spot).
Please don’t laugh too hard… I promise to practice my toy tossing… I am so used to working with food, so even though this doesn’t look like progress, it is a beginning… but what else should I be doing with the running? Is it ok to work on the board like this for sticks?
We are continuing pivoting, but I saw that you told someone else not to lure for that with their hand… I have to give Stella a hand cue, I spin my hand over her head in the direction I want her to go… I guess thats luring? I should stop that?
Yeah, sticks are hard to throw well… Anyway, try releasing sooner after the throw, they usually run faster if the toy is still moving! You can give her a hand signal for direction, but try not to go over her head to not help too much. The more you help, the less the dog is thinking.
But did you see your squirrel-chasing suggestion worked!!! When she thinks she might catch a squirrel she DOES run much faster--so fast in fact that when I tried to pull out single frames they were all blurs… there are often squirrels in the back corner of our yard and when we let her out the back door she always thinks THIS TIME I WILL CATCH ONE… so--for this video, all I had to do was say SQUIRREL! before I let her out the back door (the video camera was set up ahead of time) and I got the good running… You want even faster?????
Also, on the plank section of this video, there is one time that I left in a little of the part where she is still running back to get at the start of the board and instead of letting her turn around and get ready and restraining her first, I threw the stick even before she had turned around and she gave me pretty good--faster to my eye--running that time. Not letting her start from a standstill, that seemed to make up for not having enough running space ahead of the board… but possibly it was because it was a surprise and it wouldn’t work every time.
Yeah, you just need to get that speed on a plank now 🙂 Anyway, how about an object close to the wall, having her come back, run around an object and then over the plank, that would give her more of a running start -- maybe something to try?
Hi Silvia,
This is supposed to be my first and second assignments but I don´t know what happend to the resto of videos I recorded of Cora running freely, I´ll try to film a video again tomorrow, I´m sorry.
It was a nice session full of questions…
I couldn´t analize clearly in slow motion how does cora really run when running freely, there is a couple of runs in which she misses the board and runs as if she had no obstacle, I´m not sure if it is the same. BUt in fact it loked preaty good to me.
When training on the board on a flat surface, I think that she runs preaty good, what do you think? It is much easier to find the flat board on the floor when she is restrained, she misses it sometimes when running from the tunnel, we didn´t train it very much because I tried a several times and didn´t like the way se was doing it so I stoped.
Afterwards I put the board on a small height. When I analize it I see that her stride might be uneven and her leg feet are not as wide as when running on the floor, and she isn´t as fast either. Ihad already seen this, but this happened whe she started running from very far away from the board. When we were working on the table, I would restrain her on the table and her stride would be more even.
What should I do?
Should I keep working on the flat board?
Should I keep working with her running from the tunnel? only restrained? or both?
Thank you very much
Here is the video:
To me, it looks like she is sometimes struggling to stay on the board, especially when coming from a tunnel and that’s why her stride is somewhat uneven and hind feet more together as you would want to. So maybe for now, you can always start from a restrain, varying the starting point a little to find a good spot to get good hits that you can jackpot and then go from there. You can stay on raised plank and see what the trend is.
I found that Maia’s stride was off when I tried putting a tunnel infront of the plank too. It threw her off for some reason -- she would either avoid the plank altogether or her stride was completely off and she would have her hind legs closer and closer together. I will take the tunnel away for now too then.
I took away the tunnel, put a longer run for her on a straight plank before reaching the inclined plank and her stride got much better it looks like after she has enough space to level her stride, she has a fairly open and constant stride.
I have a question, when aiming to jackpot when the dog gets near to the end of plank should I jackpot for the proximity of her hind feet to the edge of the plank? the proximity of her front feet or which ever of both she puts near to the end of the plank?
Should I aim now for the end of the plank or keep trying to jackpot when her hind feet are separated the most?. It is very difficult for me to see it from behind.
Than you very much
Here is the video of us doing what you sugested:
Looks good! Jackpot for front OR hind feet close to the end of the plank if they’re nicely separated. The reason we are doing this in a class settings is to review the videos of others too, you will see there what to jackpot and what not to jackpot -- see Kristin’s video of Da Vinci for example: you can see what she jackpotted and for which ones I agreed and which I didn’t. You can mark the same way in your videos then and I’ll tell you which decisions I liked and which I didn’t. But again, the more videos of other students you will check, the easier it will be to see your own dog’s movement and to jackpot the right things. I know there are many videos and comments to see and read, but I highly recommend everybody to do that -- that’s how you learn to see things
Here is our first lesson 1 homework video. I forgot to post an intro for this class because I had already done one for Puppy/ Tricks II class. I’m Kristin and I have 3 dogs. A 3.5 year old Sheltie rescue, Cash, who has done a scaled down version of running contact training but needs more practice. He is very sensitive and agility is a confidence builder for him. He shuts down easily. Callie is my 3.5 year old Border Collie rescue. She is returning from a CCL injury and I am re-training her A-frame from 2on-2off to running. Cash currently competes and I and hope Callie can return to competition this summer. Da Vinci is our 7.5 month old Belgian Tervuren puppy. He is enrolled in Sylvia’s Puppy/ Tricks class though I am doing the lessons with all three dogs. This is his Running Contacts class homework video…
-I can get film of him running faster when I can take him to the field to chase Callie.
-We tried the plank and were hugely unsuccessful so I only included the ones where he managed to stay on the plank and didn’t bother slow motion on those. My toy tosses were terrible so he didn’t really have a chance. Stayed on only if running between the Manners Minder and me. He has been on planks before but never at speed. I realized I needed to start on carpet.
-I think I need to give more space before and after the carpet based on what I am seeing in others’ videos. Is that true?
-restraining was terribly uncoordinated on my part! He does well with that if he knows the task so I think we will be better after he understand what is expected of him. Should I do something to “teach” going over the carpet/ plank or am I just to toss over it and expect he will figure it out in time?
-I can adjust the bars in the cavaletti poles so I will change those out next for variable heights. I did not reward the bounding runs through.
-This video day was his first full independent circle on the perch (at the end). 🙂
Yes, it’s definitely too early for the plank you have. Keep working on a carpet and meantime try to find a wider board that we can then put under some angle -- I think yours is simply too narrow for a dog of his age and size to comfortably run full speed. The more space the better, but I think you have enough space, just restrain him further&further back and throw as far as you can. If you restrain with left hand, throw with right and release immediately after, from right in front of the carpet, I guess he is staying on, no? Then just slowly add distance.
Can you recommend a size board I should be looking for that would be appropriate for him?
Will we be elevating the wider board before he goes back to the normal dog-walk plank?
Yes, we’ll be elevating the wider board first. If you could make two dog-walk ramps stable one next to another that would be great. Or any other plank of that width? For flat work, you can also use a flat A-frame, but you will need something else for raising it then.
Hi Silvia
I am retraining my young dog Bilbo. He was taught originally with Puzzle, but whilst she ‘gets it’, he doesn’t. Though he is a more sensitive dog with less confidence than her. I think it all went wrong when we got to shows, and he encountered the judges running alongside the dog walk, and slowed right down. Anyway we now have more a trotting contact than a running one! 🙂
Here is an example, so you can see where we are starting from:
Other than contacts, he has quite alot of drive on the rest of the course.
Here’s the video of him just running on the flat (with puzzle as a lure 🙂 )
So I’m starting from scratch again, with a plank on the floor. The first video shows me using a long batten plank (I tried this, because its thinner than a dw plank), and then I switched to a dw plank, because he wasn’t staying on the first plank very well. As he already partly understands this, the dw plank seemed to work the best. Both videos show all attempts, to see the success rate.
One new thing you will learn about me straight away is I’m not a very good thrower!! 🙂
I haven’t yet marked any. Do you think I should do more on the ground and start marking the best ones, or raise the plank a little?
Very strange… I’m really surprised to see that slowing down in competition… I’ve seen plenty of leaping off by sensitive dogs, but I’ve never seen slowing down… It usually doesn’t even cross their mind as an option if they were always trained for running only. And he was never trained for anything else but running on contacts before that video from a competition? And he does the same thing in training now? But A-frames are o.k., right?
I would raise that plank a little, I’m always concerned with those thick boards that they step on the edge…
Yeah, he has only ‘learnt’ running contacts. There must have been something wrong with his training and understanding before he started competing. I think maybe i progressed at puzzles rate and it was too quick for him. A-frames are ok speed wise, but a bit hit and miss whether he gets the contact or not. I decided not to worry about it until he has a better understanding of the dog walk.
In training now he does the same thing on the dw but does it faster. My dw wont lower and I think this will be the key when retraining him to run it again, so i will make sure i find one to practice on that will.
At least he still very much enjoys running over a single plank, so hopefully he will retrain ok. I’ll raise it a little and start rewarding the good tries. Should i carry on sending him over it, or recall or a mixture of both?
From the videos do you think i should start clicking and withhold the ball now if he leaps, or carry on rewarding every one for the minute and just overdo the good ones?
Actually, the best when retraining is using additional plank on a dog-walk, as you can see in videos of some of the participants. Lowered dog-walk still looks exactly as a full height dog-walk, so you don’t get the same effect. The additional plank on the other hand is very visual and tells them we’re doing the running. So actually, as soon as you have some height, I would put that ramp on the other dog-walk ramp, work just the plank first and then slowly bring him back so that he is running bigger&bigger % of a dog-walk -- if you only are using one down ramp as a plank, then you’ll only get to 2/3, but probably, that should be good enough.
For now, you can do both, sending and recalling. I do mostly sending though as it looks more like in real life. You can definitely start clicking and jackpot the best ones, but I would still let him have a ball every time if he is rather sensitive -- if you’re throwing in advance, he is probably getting it every time anyway? -- It’s really no big deal, if you get too strict too soon, you might loose the speed and that’s the last thing we want with him.
Hello,
J’ai travaillé le mouvement des pattes arrières au shaping, ça marche pas trop mal ! mais elle tourne toujours du même coté !! tu as une astuce pour qu’elle change de coté ??
Sur la planche juste avant la soupe ! j’ai eu une bonne vitesse et aussi des erreurs ! je travail seule et donc je la vois par derrière; je fais quelques erreurs de click ! Il me semble qu’elle met parfois ses pattes avant très près du bord du bout de la planche et que ça provoque ensuite du saut car ça doit être très désagréable pour ses petits pieds
I worked hind paws movement in shaping, it works pretty well! but she always turns the same side! do you have a tip to it changes from the side?
On the board just before the soup! I had good speed and also errors! I work alone so I only can see it from behind, I make some mistakes click! It seems to me that she sometimes puts her front legs close to the edge of the end of the plank and that it then causes the jump because it must be very unpleasant for her little feet
You can first shape full circles in one direction and then stop rewarding that direction, position the target next to the wall so that she can’t keep circling and then go from zero for other direction, clicking every step again. And yes, the edge of the plank can be very uncomfortable if the plank is thick. That’s why I’m all the time talking about importance of a plank being THIN!
Here is our first session on the plank.
At first i placed the plank above the carpet.
And here is the second session. Without carpet under the plank.
Definitely less hind feet separation as on a carpet… But maybe, she just needs more confidence. Maybe stay on that height for a week and send a video how she is doing then to see the trend.
Hi Silvia
Mercy and Barb here
It has been raining for weeks here, so the flat running and planks were filmed in the arena. It is a bit dark, so it looks like I need to film the flat running again.
But here is Mercy
Had technical difficulty. Will re post
Barb
Kris and Devo here. First, I must tell you Devo loves this game! She sits by the back door waiting to play! Our homework is half done. The running and plank assignments are attached. We worked a bit on the elevated plank. One of the problems I am seeing is that if my throw is inaccurate, Devo will come off the side of the plank. I have not started to jackpot yet because I’m not sure of the criteria or if we are ready for that step. I’m still restraining and throwing so I’m behind. We will work on our cavaletti and hind feet. Devo can circle the perch, but only in heel or side position and me moving. I will work for independence. We are having lots of fun and learning a lot! Thanks!
Looks great! Definitely mark when she is running at the end of the plank and jackpot the lowest hits -- but then, on an elevated plank, pretty much all were very nice and low 🙂 If you have another 5 or 6 sessions like this, you can put it higher. If running to the side is your only problem, you don’t have a problem 🙂 It goes away on it’s own once the plank is higher.
And yes, all dogs love the plank work and a dog-walk as a consequence and the speed and pulling ahead to obstacles are additional side effects of plank work 🙂 I noticed that with my puppy, she only got really good obstacle focus and pulling ahead once we included dog-walk into the sequences. -- Not that that would be a problem with BCs 🙂 -- but with smaller and terrier like dogs, you can really see a huge difference.
Thanks. For getting ahead of her to mark the behavior, should I put her in a down, release, run and throw so I can see the end of the plank? Tunnel? And end behavior -- front feet, rear feet? Know I read one of your responses about that somewhere, just don’t remember where!
For me, the easiest is to see it from behind, so I just stand wherever I restrain and watch. If you want, you can move with her a little so that you get nearer to see it. You could also use a stay or a tunnel, but again, it’s easier to see from behind as when you’re right next to the dog. Front or rear, both is o.k. if it’s nicely in.
Final part of our homework, cavelleti and perch work. We haven’t done this work in a long time! Devo has a difficult time turning on the perch independently. When I would stand in front of the perch, that was her cue to put all 4 feet on it. We will continue to work on independence.
Great with cavaletti, some more work to get more independent pivoting! And how is the plank work going? Did you raise it already?
Interesting that you ask about that plank! It has been raised with a tunnel bag underneath and all was going very well. Devo was pretty consistent with 3 strides/hits, back feet hitting low on third. I had been restraining, throw, release and staying behind her. She is having a blast!
Yesterday, I changed two of the variables. I raised the plank by 2″ and instead of restrain, throw, release while staying behind her, I sent her into a tunnel, stood next to the plank and threw as she came out of the tunnel.
Out of 18 runs, she had 3 leaps, 2 no hits, 8 2 strides/hits, and 5 of her usual striding 3 hits, back feet low. 4 of 5 usual 3 striding runs we when I stayed behind her as she came out of the tunnel.
Would the place where I stand change the behavior on the plank? My plan today was 1.) continue to stay behind her as she comes out of the tunnel and throw 2) lower the plank to see if things go back to normal. Any other suggestions? Unfortunately, the rain beat me to it and will have to go outside and play tomorrow! Apologies for this long message! I will let you know what happens if it ever stops raining! Thank you, Sylvia.
Sorry clarifying strides
Usual 2 strides (not 3 hits), back feet hit lower
Unusual 2 strides, front feet hit lower
Think that’s right!!!
I think it could be coming out of the tunnel that changed her striding, she was probably faster that way and she couldn’t fit her normal 2 strides in, so she decided to leap. Already the try at 0:28 looks somewhat “leapy” and then in the next try, a late throw actually gives you one. Maybe standing next to the plank made your throws late? -- Those would be two more possible reasons, but yes, just play with it and see what you get.
Hey Sylvia, After today’s session, I think you are right that adding the tunnel has changed/increased Devo’s stride lengths. I will just continue to restrain, throw and release until I hear differently from you. I think I read a reply that for this lesson we are continuing to work on nice fast running planks and jackpotting low hits, correct? After 5 or 6 more successful sessions, should I raise the plank again? Thank you!
Exactly. For now, you don’t want to challenge her too much, despite it would be good to try with a tunnel and a longer plank, at least at one point… Do you have a dog-walk ramp that you could use, just to see what we get?
So here comes the video of our first lesson.
I could write an essay of explanations, excuses and so on.. but I just let you say what you think without me talking toooo much 🙂
Running on the plank shows two naughty jumps (the first two ones). She used to jump like that A LOT, but never lately. I don’t know why she did, but I just ignored it and she started running. From my own comparison between running on the ground and the plank is that she does better (more similar) when I release her a bit later than I mostly do. The two last running on the plank are examples where I release her a bit later. Otherwise she strides shorter to prepare herself to catch that ball it seems. What do you think Silvia?
Yes, she does seem to have a tendency to pounce on a toy, you can already see that when running on the ground. From that reason, it’s very important you throw a toy very far and enough in advance that it’s well ahead of her and she is not tempted to start the pouncing on a plank already. Keep working on that height some more, until you get rid of the jumps. Jackpot the lowest hits. Well done with pivoting and cavaletti too!
Wow, that was a fast input! Yes, she is rather bumpy. But she is MUCH better though. I’ll stay at this height and practise my throwing too! 🙂