As I already wrote: I know it's quite hard to keep up with this class program, especially to those who can't practice every day or have had some problems with plank work. Don't worry about it, keep working on it and send videos of wherever you are. Print out lesson 4 to start with it when you're ready, but don't push for it. If you want to keep working on it within the class form even when the class finishes, there will be a new class starting right then and you're welcome to join for a lower price, I just opened a registration with that option.
For those who are still keeping up, meaning that you're already running full low DW or DW with a plank with a jump or a tunnel after it, here is the lesson 4. For those who are still struggling on a plank or have troubles with low DW - don't even try it, keep sending videos of whereever you are and watch videos of others to get a good picture of what this lesson is about and you can work on it later on.
1. Start moving the jump after which the dog is getting his toy A LITTLE in different directions: left and right, rotating it somewhat too. If it makes the dog fail, set it back to help the dog succeed and then move it again by really VERY little tiny bit. It's better to move it a little every two tries as to move it a lot every two sessions! Keep rewarding by throwing a toy after the contact is done, over the jump. Try to sometimes use a tunnel instead of a jump too. Go through all the possible positions of the jump that still allow the dog to get the jump without collection on a dog-walk. When the dog is fine with that, try also running into nothing. You want to address all possible course situations other than real turns - we'll get there in the next session.
2. Time to start with an A-frame too! Put it somewhat lower (1,5m maybe) and try running the dog over. I recommend less speedy approach first (starting close to the base of an A-frame) as dogs who were trained to RUN over planks tend to run up so fast they then fly over the top so much that it's not unusual they only land on the floor... If you see your dog doesn't have such tendencies, add more&more speed to the approach AND make it steeper and steeper, I usually go to full height in one session.
Don't worry if not all contacts are perfect at first, they will probably need to experiment some at first. They often first go for one stride but then change to two as it's more comfortable striding for them or sometimes medium dogs start with two that are too short to get in but then start to extend more and are nicely in with two. Many long-strided dogs will go for one, Bi is always doing one and used to sometimes be somewhat high, but is now always nicely in, even on not so speedy approaches. Bu will normally do two, but sometimes also does one and interestingly, is always in even when she goes for one. Le does two and is sometimes somewhat high as she once flew over the top so much that she crashed to the floor really badly and is now somewhat too careful at the top - but getting in nicer with time and experience.
The thing that I said for running contacts: that the good thing is that they only get better, even if you don't do anything about it... - It's especially true for A-frame. I simply put it in sequences at the second session and they just get better&better. The only problem we ever had with A-frames was with "limit" dogs who were too far with one/two strides that they could make another one, but too high to be in with that one/two strides. You do need to do some more sessions on just A-frame with those dogs and select for good ones. Experiment a little with what gives you best hits as far as handler position and timing of a thrown ball (in advance vs. after the contact) and use that for a start.
With a good hit, I mean anything clearly in. You do NOT want them to generalize DW style too good as you do NOT want them too deep, it's physically too hard on them and they might prefer to not do it if you ask them to come too deep - remember, the easier behaviour is for them, the easier it is for you to maintain it. You are again looking for hind feet separation and you don't want it any deeper as that:
3. Tricks: let's do some pivoting again, this time so that you position yourself next to the target and only click for coming all the way to your leg, touching it. Then either move away and have them follow you or have them pivot back to the other leg. Once they understand the leg is their new object to target, switch to a flat target and then fade it. We need them to know to come to both legs for the next trick.
The other trick we need till next time, for being able to introduce turns, is going tightly around a pole, cik&cap. Shape the dog to wrap the pole/table leg/whatever tightly and put it on a verbal cue.
Hi Silvia:
Thanks again for offering us a lower cost option for taking the next RC class. I just tried to sign up and it only offers me the full participant price when I click on the “third” option??
Shona
O-ow, thanks for noticing, you’re right! Wait till tomorrow then, I’ll have my boyfriend fix it (it’s above me… 🙂 ) tomorrow morning!
O.k., I think it’s fixed now.
Hi Silvia!
Interesting you suggested trying going into nothing. I have been trying to get Spur on as many different DW’s as possible as he is still slower on strange ones. This session I had hoped to work on turns, but at this location (new location for him) we ended up working into nothing. I had not planned that, but it was what happened. He was perfect going into the course, but into nothing (it was actually a HUGE open field that sloped down hit) he leaped. Nice thing was the next try each time he got it. 😀
We haven’t had too many chances to work on our curves, yet. The weather was bad for a spell and things were really busy at work. I have some time off coming up, so I hope to get some of that done.
Thanks! Amy and Little Spur
Yeap, it can be confusing at first… The good thing is you got some really nice ones, so I’m sure he will be fine with it soon. When the problem is bigger, I suggest going back to a thrown or static toy for those cases and then work from there.
Interesting thing is since that session his hits have been better than ever! I think that was such a clear learning situation for him. 😀
Hi Silvia 🙂
Just wanted to share my training session that I had with Liryk today as for the first time she actually put her front foot into the contact zone 😀 It’s only JUST in, but I was so excited I had to post it!!
hhtpv://
Megan and Liryk
LOL in my excitement I wrote it in wrong! Oops trying again 😛
Megan
Wow, very cool! Not only she has front foot in, her hind feet separation is even better now! Great job!
Ooooh I didn’t notice THAT! Very happy 😀 THANKYOU!!!
Awesome progress!!!!
Thankyou!!
Hi there, ok so our RC training has fallen appart completely! 1stly because my DW has now got way to many holes in it to patch so waiting to fix it which brings me to the second point and that is a happier one right now as to my RC training and that is we are 99% there with getting rubberised contact equipment mats manufactured here in SA which is a very new and 1st for us here. hopefully within the next week my dog walk and see saw will have rubber mats on and we can then use our full DW to train. I will go right back too what i would like to have done a week or 2 ago and that was to train on a low dog walk and raise it bit by bit. as much as i am very unhappy we are behind the dream of have rubberised contact equipment is comming true! i will still watch videos and read comments. see ya all soon.
O.k., so by falling apart you mean you can’t practise, not that she started to leap or something? That’s not too bad then and rubberised equipment is definitely good news, I absolutely wanted rubber too and am now sorry I didn’t get one that is even softer (and more expensive of course) -- but it will definitely be my choice next time.
Hi Silvia, i forgot to ask, can we do the A frame in the mean time or only as part of lesson 4, once we get going again. Thank you.
Hm, I like to wait with an A-frame until the dog is already running real DW… -- be it still somewhat lower or full height with a plank on it. I actually never tried differently, maybe it wouldn’t affect DW performance at all, but I don’t like to do too many A-frames anyway, especially not with a young dog, so I always preferred to wait anyway.
Hi there, cool i will wait with the A frame, no rush, lots to work on in AF.
As far as her contacts, our DW equipment has fallen apart! waiting for our new mats hopefully no longer than the end of next week. Spy has not been working so great and i think it is because of all the patching to fix holes etc. so think stopping is better that rewarding incorrect so a break for 2 weeks, maybe less, and then hopefully up and running again very soon on new rubber, can we still post even if we are behind. thank you. Alicia
Sure, post whatever you have when your equipment is ready!
Do you avoid lots of A-frames because it’s so high you worry about huge leap and impact of landing? Or another reason?
I don’t like their first contact with that steep ramp… I don’t think it’s very good for shoulders and back.
hi silvia -- wicked started her a-frame training last year using the box. we had trouble extending into the yellow for a while, but your rc training seems to have solved that. we just recently tried a few and they were much nicer. should we stay at full height? do you have any suggestions for us, or do you want to see it? thanks, terri
Sure, if they are nice, just keep it full height -- don’t fix things that aren’t broken! 🙂 Do send a video though!
ok, here are a few. thanks!
Cool! Some are somewhat high, but if she is always in, I would definitely just let it be, I don’t like too deep A-frames anyway.
thanks silvia. how often do you suggest putting the a-frame into sequences? right now we are having oppressive heat and humidity and so are doing very little at a time. we are progressing with the dw, and practicing our tricks. just waiting for a tolerable day to get outside and video! terri
Well, you don’t need to specifically train A-frame at all anymore, but you can include it whenever you do course work or need it for a sequence. But yes, if the heat doesn’t allow you to train much, then it’s better to focus on other things.
hi silvia -- here is some recent dw work. should we just continue to move the jumps?
thanks, terri
Very cool! As she is doing so well with jumps so much to the side already, you could indeed try moving them even more and gradually come to the real turns that way -- as shown in a video of Bi I posted under Lesson 5. OR, you can start with a pole and 180 degrees turns.
You can of course also add more height and include it in a real sequences, she definitely looks ready! Great job!!!
thank you! right now, these jumps are quite far away -- trying to prevent collection or slowing down on the dw. as i move them closer and with a more severe turn, should i put a pole at the end of the plank? (i’m thinking maybe like a combination of your 2 methods).
here are our tricks from lesson 4. thanks again, terri
Yes, that’s what I did with Bi: once she was starting to cut edges, I put a pole at the end (see the video) -- and then make it smaller.
Great job with tricks!!!
Hi Silvia,
I am working on editing some video but thought that I would give you an update. Taari, who was jumping over the yellow mats started avoiding the end of the plank even when the mats were all grey. She would either jump off to the side or jump off the end. Tonight she was not jumping off to the side (an improvement) and I got some good ones (about 5 out 15). The last couple of sessions have been with a wider flat board with the mats on top. I did this because both Nessa and Taari were not running on the narrow board well even when it was elevated.
Tonight Nessa was wanting to run on the grass (8/22) and not the board 🙁 though I did get some good ones. She seemed a bit crazy -- very high energy. The session before was better. She has started bringing the ball back!
I am suspecting that my setup may not be ideal so I will be working on it (mats may slip on the boards).
I am finding that as their behaviour deteriorates I start lowering my criteria (sometimes I wonder if I am lowering it too much -- i.e. rewarding something I shouldn’t). I am still training my eye as well.
We didn’t get to practice as much as I would have liked as well as having set backs. I also have an injured arm (medial epicondylitis -- throwers/golfers elbow) and it makes throwing difficult -- especially if I try to throw far. I am trying to use my other arm.
I would like to continue on with the second RC class with Nessa. Taari is going to be a challenge. Though her set back may be due doing a handful of dogwalks at a seminar and at regionals. We won’t be doing any more. She is a great little jumpers dog. She came in 2nd in a jumpers qualifier this weekend at the Canada Cup which gave us a bye into the final. There were 5 current or previous World Team dogs in her class. I really want her to be able to do contacts successfully -- doesn’t have to be 100%. My thinking is to continue on with her as well as I am not ready to give up. I am not sure what I would do either if I didn’t continue on. Please let me know what you think.
Hi
I intorduced the Aframe to Mercy months ago, but did not proceed with it. Since he has done the Aframe, I put him on it a few times yesterday to video and see what he would do. He is clearly not running with split hind legs, and he is leaping/jumping. Should I start with the low frame to get the split leg/run?
Yes, let’s try to go much lower first and see what he does then.
Hi
Yes we are still working on DW and AF, but only early morning and late evening due to the heat. This AF is at 4 feet. Because he was not running the frame, i took it flat and inched it up. This is what I have so far. The second video to post is short, 3 DW and 3AF. The variable in the first to second is: I brought another of my dogs out and Mercy is running the DW to a tunnel to a treat dispencer in the second. Not to crazy about the second video AF.
Here is the second video
Thanks Barb and Mercy
Great!!! He definitely understands his job really well and somehow throws at least one paw in even when the normal stride would take him over. I actually preferred the DWs in a second video and A-frames are o.k. too, it’s no problem for A-frame if they’re somewhat high. You sure look almost there! Did you try moving the exit tunnel/jump somewhat? Are you always using a dispenser or he is o.k. also without it?
HI
Mercy is not a real intense border collie, so sometimes I bring out another dog to help jazz him up. That is really the reason I wanted to try running contacts, because he did not seem to be as fast or drivey as my other border collies, so I did not want him to stop for contacts. From a stop position, he does not have that fast acceleration that my other two have. I work on it a lot, but not there yet. He also does not fly into a tunnel so I have kept it mostly straight ahead. Although he is getting much better at speed into a tunnel after doing lots of tunnel games away from the dw. Mercy is only 20 months old, so I think he will get better with more experience.
Do I move the tunnel as I would the jump after the dw?
I just started to use the dispencer for the AF cause if I threw a toy he jumped off. So yesterday I decided to try it on the dw. He seems good with it or without.
Thanks
Barb and Mercy
Good, very good that he can do it without the dispenser too. Great idea to add excitement by bringing another dog out. Dogs are different, my Bu is also not intense at all and has terrible accelerations, but with running RC and tight turns, she can have really good times -- and is very easy to handle as unlike La, she never just disappears somewhere 🙂 So I’m sure he will do great, just keep working on tunnel drive and obstacle focus, it’s an important thing for RC. For now, you can move a tunnel after DW yes, but you can also try it with a jump to practise different situations. I think adding height won’t be a problem at all, so you can now focus on preparing him to include DW in real sequences, with real, different approaches and exits.
Here are our class 4 tricks
Barb and Mercy
Cool! Pivoting looks good enough to try the figure 8 backwards now! You can also try some DW turns around the pole now, I think he is ready.
Thank you Silvia, we are working through your suggestions and have also raised the DW. I have a question about the Aframe. After my posted video on July 6, I lowered the AF, almost flat and ran Mercy over it and he had good back leg seperation. I inched the frame up over a week or two and he continued to show split legs until the AF was just over 4 feet and then his behavior was the exact same as the video on the 6th. I have done the frame for several days at full ht and his hits on the up side are very consistent but not on the down side. He is in the yellow some, but just by inches and no split back legs. I did make a video using two cameras, one on each side of the AF, so I could see if the up was affecting the descent. I don’t think it did.
Thanks
Barb and Mercy
Hm, I would go back to the last height that gives you split legs and stay somewhat longer on that height -- and then try just a really tiny bit higher. It’s strange what makes his change his striding once you get higher, but you definitely want to keep split legs and reach forward as if he were doing that, he would be nicely in…
Thanks I will lower the AF to get the split legs again. I don’t know what made him change. I took the frame up just a chain link at at time.
I just posted Mercy’s figure 8 backwards trick in lesson 5 and we will start the DW turns.
Barb
Huh, that’s even weirder if it was just one link… But yes, just keep it lower for a while. Have fun with turns!
Hi
Thanks for all your help. I have a question about raising the DW. I’m not sure about the time to raise the dw. Is the success rate to be high at each height before raising it, or is the goal to continue to raise gradually even if the dog is medium rate of success. Now that my DW is about 1/2 of full height, maybe a little more, Mercy goes through sessions that are good and then a few that are less succesful. I see some students that raise to full height and work through some difficulties and some that stay low. I’m not sure what is the best to proceed.
Barb and Mercy
Well, you can raise it before it’s perfect, but definitely don’t rush it too much. But usually, once they get it and just need some time to figure out the striding on the new height, you can proceed fairly quickly -- quicker as you would at beginner stages.
Hi Silvia! My little retrain and I have been working on a few things. She was trained all the way up to the full dogwalk with the Manners Minder so I backed up a bit and worked on keeping her running, throwing the toy. It was somewhat difficult but I think we have it now-- Fe running for the thrown toy on a 16″ board is at the end of this video! Stationary toy was very easy for her!
Second, the A-Frame has been a bit of a challenge for us. I started out several months ago working up to full height and just putting it into sequences without really discriminating tries. I found that it was very easy for her to start scrambling with hind feet together on the AF, and then the next time we went back to the DW the first rep would be hind feet together! Scary… She was also offering 3 small scrambly strides on the down ramp-- I’m not sure if that was a remnant of her old 2o2o training or if she really understands to go hit deep. I’ve done 10-12 sessions trying to add some criteria to the AF to help her out. I think she needs to understand split rear legs are always the answer, what do you think?
Attached vid showing what I am going to try to jackpot/not reward
Thanks!! I will post some videos of dogwalks and tricks as soon as I mow the yard!!
Devi
Looks great! Almost too great 🙂 With an A-frame, you actually don’t want them that deep in as with DW as it’s physically hard for them to do it on full height. But yes, you definitely want split legs, so now that you got it, I would just go back to full height, paying attention to not loose the split legs, but without going for really deep hits. But yes, she seems to understand the game really well, great job!
Thank you!!! Yes, I expect she won’t actually go that deep forever… she’ll figure out it’s more comfortable to hit higher… but I’ll reward anything with split feet!
Yeap, that’s what usually happens. Sounds like a good plan, it’s important to not insist on only very deep ones.
Oops!!! I linked to a random video… Not sure how that happened, please delete the above post if possible!