Time for a new lesson! And a "catch-up break" 🙂 I'll be home one more week to review your videos of where you are at and answer questions on how to proceed if meeting difficulties with new assignments and then you'll have two weeks to work on it on your own, catching up if you got stuck behind a little - or giving your dog some plank break if you're as far as you wanted to be with it. If you're behind, make sure to complete lesson 1 before you start with lesson 2 and that you complete lesson 2 before starting with lesson 3 - you can't jump steps, there is a reason I'm giving you this assignments in the order that I do!
I'll be back to answering on 24th June and will publish new assignments on 4th July.
1. switch to a static toy, position it at the bar of a jump with a bar on the ground. The jump should be straight forward after the plank, about 7m away. The goal is the dog starts to look for a jump, knowing the toy is there. Occasionally, still throw a toy in advance, but mostly, have it there. When the dog already knows where it is, put a jump bar very low and a toy behind it (close after it, but far enough that the dog can land normally). Keep it there long enough that the dog is expecting it there. When you see the dog is pulling well towards the jump, knowing the toy is there, get another toy and as soon as you click the contact, throw a second toy over the jump. Soon, you won't need a static toy at all anymore.
The goal is to switch from a static toy that is there as a target for the dog to focus him forward to a jump as a target to focus the dog forward and a toy as a reward we throw AFTER we see the contact is good. You need to be pretty quick as you don't want the dog to wait for the toy - so quick that I sometimes throw it before I realize the contact was actually not THAT good - but it gets easier 🙂 I guess this step will finally make everybody worried about rewarding jumps happy as now, you can withhold the toy for unsuccessful tries. HOWEVER, make sure the dog successful rate is high for this step as otherwise, you can loose the speed and get the dog checking back with you if you're throwing a toy or not. The same can be dangerous if you're late throwing a toy.
This is usually an easy step for BCs who will run full speed in anticipation of the toy, but can be a very hard one for some other dogs. For Le, that was the hardest step. She was running beautifully if the ball was still rolling when she saw it, but if I threw it that early that it was already static when she saw it (or when I positioned it there), then she didn't extend well enough. What finally worked was going few steps back with height, exciting her a lot with a toy, throwing it at the jump and sending her quickly to the dog-walk. That made her striding good enough to continue long enough to have her look for the jump and then I quickly switched to a toy, thrown after the contact is done, over the jump. That temporary caused some checking back with me, so I needed to go back to a stationary toy again, but then she finally got the idea to keep running full speed toward the jump/tunnel and trust the toy will appear then 🙂 and that again gave me the beautiful striding I had before trying to get rid of a toy, thrown in advance.
If the transition to a stationary toy is too hard, another way to try to avoid that phase is to pretend you are throwing a toy in advance, but then only throw it after. OR, using a tunnel as a way to focus the dog forward and throw it after the tunnel - works great with tunnel crazy dogs, didn't work with Le. Try and report back if you have problems.
2. keep adding height. If you have an option, it's also time to try the real thing. You can either use a lowered dog-walk or a normal dog-walk with additional plank at the end as you can see in some videos. Start with down ramp only and then slowly put the dog further&further back until you run the whole dog-walk.
When trying this or any other, new variable, don't vary other variables - make it as easy for the dog to succeed as possible. You can also lower a criteria somewhat. Normally, your criteria about hits by now should already be to be deeply in the contact - but temporary, you can click for good tries on a limit too, IF hind feet are well separated and the dog is not leaping.
3. new trick: have a dog back up on something very low and preferably soft first (folded blanket, low pillow) - then slowly add height, so that they need to pick up their hind legs higher&higher. At the same time, you can teach a "pee trick": click for lifting the leg, searching for an object, before they touch it. Make sure to try to get leg lifts on both sides - they usually prefer to go up with the same leg, so try to sometimes position them somewhat diagonally in front of an object so that their preferred leg is too far from it to start with that one. Also try climbing stairs backwards.
Have fun!
Hi Silvia:
Welcome back and glad you had a good time. We’ve been doing well here…solidly in lession 2. Your last feedback was to use a 2 table setup with a wide plank to get lots of good hits. Over about 2 weeks, we were successful with only an occasional leap and lots of great hits and rewards/jackpots. I added some height and varied his starting point a bit too with continued success. By varying his starting point, I mean I was sending from different points on the ground. He was running so confidently across the wide plank and with so much success, I decided to try a regular narrow plank, starting low. He did so well, I stuck with it and you’ll see in the video that he made that transition very nicely — no big deal at all at this stage.
The video is a sampling of 2 sessions spaced about a week apart. In the one at lower height, you’ll see typical hits using front feet. At the higher height, he’s landing differently and using rear feet to get nicely into the contact zone.
Of course, I doubt that I’ve challenged him enough to build true understanding and a deliberate adjustment of his stride. So..what is next? To change his approach to the planks? I have rigged up something to add a short plank going up to the tables (see picture) OR I could raise this same short plank to be like a bench -- an extension of the tables. Or perhaps you have a different idea.
I think throwing the toy sooner will be another challenge and one I predict we’ll have to work through patiently as he tends to pounce on toys that aren’t moving.
Thx
Anne & Tai
Wow, looks GREAT now!!! You can switch to the set-up from the picture yes and if that goes well, it’s time to add some more height. If you think a static toy can be a problem for him, you can try to skip this part, you can try using a tunnel to focus him forward (or pretend you threw a toy?) and then throw a toy after he is in. It’s usually an easy step with BCs as they tend to run the same in anticipation of a toy as after a toy 🙂 Also, make sure you sometimes also run with him to test if he is o.k. with that.
Silvia -- thx for the feedback. I’ll let you know how it goes!
Hi Silvia, Classmates,
So,we did go flat again. First try was very promising! Then I threw the ball badly, again, with a jump as result. After that Keen either ran besides the plank or jumped… I found a piece of rubber in the garage and decided to go for that. So really back to basics even more basic than ever for us. What do you think? I still think I see some leaping or is it just a very long stride?
But she also seems to feel much more comfortable. She pulls much more to get released than she ever did on the plank.
Inge: I’m not a medical professional but wonder whether you have had Keen checked out for any musculo-skeletal concerns. Her striding looks “funny” to me….it’s the upright position of her head that caught my attention. Compare that to Tai in the video above or Disco on the previous page. As I said, I’m not a medical professional but if she has changed her behavior significantly -- maybe it is physical? Hope you don’t mind my commenting.
Anne
Yeap, I noticed the high head right away too, but as it’s very obvious only on some of the tries, I was thinking it could be a high thrown toy that is causing it… Of course, it never hurts to check the dog, especially as Keen’s striding sure changed significantly! At least, do a test with a very low thrown toy (as if you’re bowling) to see how she runs then.
Hi Silvia, Anne,
Thanks for your concerns. Keen was checked by our fysio but that’s a few months ago already (she got some swimming initiation lessons ;-)). I will certainly get her hips checked before we start jumping and we’ll go to our fysio again.
At this moment I’m not to worried though because, like Silvia says, if you look well you see that she’s is looking at the toy (you see the toy flying in the slow motion bits).
I’ll try to post a video asap with some very low throwing. Maybe it’s my throwing that caused the stride change?
Silvia, did Keen’s striding change in a “bad” way? To be honest I just do not see that. I see that the striding changed. It’s more a kind of leaping but I thought it was just Keen’s way to go faster…She get’s more and more motivated by the toy…
Well, by change of striding, I meant change in hind feet separation and those airy tendencies… But it certainly looks much better now with just the rubber, so I would keep working that way and only when she is completely back to normal try again with the plank. As she is so sensitive to bad throws, I would also start throwing it between jump wings 7m away in order to eventually make her so focused on the wings that the toy won’t matter that much anyway. You could also switch to a toy, thrown after the jump then, trying to skip the stationary toy phase as she was so much slower with it. You could also use a tunnel instead, should work well if she likes tunnels.
Hi Silvia, Classmates,
We tried a bit of everything. I tried to throw low! I hope I never throw like that with a bowling ball!!! 😉 But, it was lower except for the 3th one.
Then Rudy took the ball and held it so Keen could see it and finally he just threw it on the ground. In between I tried throwing very urly one time.
I have the impression that most tries were better than before, the one with the stationary toy was slower. What do you think?
Definitely much better hind feet separation!!! Still somewhat high head, but I still see a ball high in the air on several tries. But it’s good enough to continue like this and see what the trend will be.
Here is a video of our training from the other day.
It was the 2nd day at this new hight.
Great! Looks like running now! Somewhat more airy with stationary toy… Why don’t you use a tunnel instead of a jump first, I think that worked really well for her, no? Well, that way or another, you’re certainly getting enough really good tries that you can jackpot that things are going in the right direction now. Great job!
Hi Silvia, A friend and I are having a discussion about times recorded for running dw’s. Do you know good times for running dw’s? Just curious really
Thanks
sandra
I think Bi has one of the fastest DWs and she is between 1.1 and 1.2s on 3x4m (2 times 13 feet 1.44 inches) long DW. US DW is shorter, so times should be shorter there too, I know Ashley’s young PyrShep has 1.2s DW, so I think even under 1s should be possible on US DWs.
Thank you, wow those are fast!
Something to work towards for sure!
Hi, Silvia.
I tried the static toy transition with Callie (at the jump). It worked once, but she knows I have the jackpot toy and when I mark the good hit with “yes”, she turns back to me instead of following through like she would chase the ball. I tried placing the jackpot toy beyond the jump standards, but then it seems like I have to commit to “oops” when it isn’t good and calling her back because she will drive to that…but then looks for permission to take it. Not sure what to do. Her favorite toy is not one that can be tossed. I can just start working with a variety of toys that are able to be thrown…should I do that and just switch straight to throwing or withholding the toy. If so, how do you handle the reps that are worth a click, but not a jackpot? Or does a click always produce a thrown toy, but a jackpot would be thrown toy PLUS favorite toy/ tug/ party at the end.
Do you use an “oops” for misses?
Also, when I do place a bar up for her, I have to ask in advance how to handle knocked bars. What if she has a good hit and then knocks the bar? How do you handle bar knocking in general?
Thanks,
Kristin
Yes, try to go straight to a ball thrown after the jump. You can have additional one ready somewhere close where you can run to jackpot -- don’t keep it on you if that will make her turn back. You could also jackpot by more tugging&excitement, using the same toy that you are throwing if she is too distracted with the other toy. You can also use oops for mistakes if she is fine with that -- I never use it with Bu, but I do with other dogs who don’t take it that seriously 🙂
To avoid knocking a bar after a plank, I use a VERY low bar. It still happens, but I just ignore it, can’t work on that at teh same time as on contacts… In general, with my BCs, I will stop them for a knocked bar and redo. With PyrSheps I just keep going as it’s VERY rare they knock it, so I don’t worry about it.
Ok, I will try it. Thanks.
About bars…(Callie of course). Do you stop a course and leave if they knock bars in competition or keep going? Withhold the toy? Or?
I was told once not to set her bars any lower than her normal jump height since she is prone to bar knocking already. Do you agree with that or think it isn’t an issue. Seems logical to me to make the jump easier when the goal of the RC training is about the contact and not the jump…as you say, can only work on one thing at a time. Would love to know your thoughts.
I have this chance to start fresh with Callie so I want to do right by her. I don’t like our old method of dealing with bars and want a better plan. Thought about enrolling her in your AF class along with Da Vinci (I have video of last weekend I’d love to send you and see what you think, where we need to start)
Thanks, Silvia.
Kristin
No, I’m not too good in choosing to not run the course (we only have two per competition, maybe that’s why)… I would probably have to do it if I would only be getting bars in competition, never in training, but I do get them in training too, so I first need to fix that. Well, it’s so rare with Bu that I don’t really worry about it, but Bi is quite a knocker… Never on cik&cap, but often in lines as jumps are just too close for her HUGE stride… What seems to be working really well with her is to use many doubles and strange looking jumps (things hanging on bars or set under the jump) -- that gets some more attention from her and she is actually putting some effort into it now -- she is actually a great jumper, it’s just that she doesn’t find those bars very important (and has no hard feelings about it if I say “ups” and stop her either -- she just has this happy attitude towards everything 🙂 ), so this works really well for her. What to do about the bars depends A LOT on WHY the dog is knocking them. For example, if she is knocking because she is taking off too soon, then making jumps look “stronger”, as with Bi, will be contra-productive (Bi never jumps too soon). If she knocks on turns, it could either be your handling, not telling her in time where to go -- or if you are telling her in time and she is still knocking on turns, then it could be she doesn’t know how to jump collected and cik&cap work will solve that -- etc. Or maybe she just doesn’t care and is too much in a hurry to make an effort -- that would be Bi 🙂 To find the solution, you need to find a reason.
Hi Silvia, our first video of lesson 6. May be only the trick is lesson 6. With the running we have difficulties to restrain Fine (she screams and she is so hesitated that she sometimes comes out of line) and so we want to have some information about what to do in this case. On the video Fine is restrained on the centerplank and the striding is o.k. (I think?!). We try the work to a static toy and then the focus on the jump without the dog-walk, is that a good way to go? We could have a video of Fine on the plank (50 cm hoch) with the jump behind and a video with Fine on the whole lowered dog-walk with a jump and me throwing the toy after the jump. Do you want us to send one of these lessons too? And is the striding on the video good enough for doing the work with the lowered dog-walk for the next steps?
Hm, I’m not sure if I understand all the questions, so please ask again if I don’t answer all. BUT I really don’t like the way the ball is thrown. Looks like a lure to me -- NOT good. As I wrote before, I also don’t like that “one paw” contacts where the paw is right on the edge, like 1:15 (and even more so 1:32). Looks “accidental” to me, as if she was actually going for landing on the floor -- the same with last try, I don’t like it. So, go back to throwing a toy the normal way OR after the jump -- if you did that already and have it on a video, send it, of course, to see if I like it better then. If she doesn’t like the restrain, but is fine with whole DW, then try cik/cap before the DW and running the whole thing, of course. But no, I don’t like the striding in this video… Do you have another video you can send?
Sorry about my English……I will try to have a situation with better striding. I am always scared of injury on the dog-walk so I was glad about Fine running over it without coming out of line and I didn`t see the bad striding…sorry.
Oh, don’t be sorry, it’s no big deal, it was not bad, it’s just that I liked it better before, without that ball waiting for her right at the end. Try to make another video without that ball there to see how she moves then, it could be it was the ball that confused her.
We’ve been working on the set up you recommended last, two 16″ table with the plank sitting up higher on a book. I’m sending him thru a curved tunnel 15-20 feet before.
I started using a different camera which didn’t pick up the slow motion as well, so I apologize the first session is pretty blurry. I didn’t even include our actual second session because it was so blurry, but that was very successful with 7 out of 9 jackpots.
We are trying to move to a stationary toy. Getting lots of high leaps with that, is that normal?? Maybe I should try and have someone else throw the toy later and later for him??
Thanks!!
Hm, still some less hind feet separation as we had before the problems started -- but definitely more as in the last video you posted, so things seems to be going in the right direction, the tries marked with “jackpot!!!” were sure BEAUTIFUL! Try to find a pattern how to get more of those and then keep it for a while. If a stationary toy gives you more leaps, then don’t use it for now, focus on getting those perfect hits you had before back first. Once there, try to switch maybe directly to a toy thrown after -- pretending you threw or sending him to the jump or tunnel and throwing after -- maybe that will work better? Depends on a dog, really, you can try both after we get his old % back. Did I ask you before if you have an access to a low DW?
yes we have a low dog walk, would that be a better option to be working on??
Could be. For such a long strided dog, it’s hard to sort out the striding when only having one plank available… So it depends a lot on how they come to the plank. Having full length DW might make it easier. Another reason low DW might be better for him is that he looks like he will also have 4 strides DW, meaning that his first hit on a down ramp will need to be with rear feet and that striding pattern is much easier to get on a low as on high DW. Plank work certainly doesn’t hurt, but at this point, you could try a real low DW too to see what we get.
Thanks we’ll give it a try! I was wondering about that myself as I wasn’t liking how he was jumping on the tables from so far away sometimes.
The lowest our dogwalk goes is about 24″. This table we’ve been working on is 16″, so I was going to go to that next anyway.
We are on vacation this next week but we’ll give it a try when we get home. Thanks!!
Enjoy your vacation, report back when you try the DW!
Hi Silvia,
I did not see our post so I am trying again. Sorry if it happens twice.
I changed the set up and I believe it made all the difference. We had two great sessions with good hits. Some better than others due to poor toy tosses.
I will continue to expose more of the yellow on the wide plank. Then move to a one plank to get him used to running on a narrow plank before we go to a low DW set up. Do you agree ?
Our trick lesson will be coming along in a few days.
Thanks,
Rick & Disco
Looks great! Sounds like a good plan yes, when things go right, it’s good timing for adding new variables.
Silvia, this is my firts lesson with Acqua doing all the DW 🙂 When I used a stationary toy Acqua (minute 1:30) start to jump; she was running diferent so I changed (minute 1:58) to a throwing toy. How do you see us?
GREAT! She is really fast and has really great hind feet separation now. Pretty much ready for next height! To get rid of a toy, try the other options I suggested: going directly to a toy thrown after the jump/tunnel for example. t’s not too bad with a stationary toy either, but the tunnel after and a throw toy after the tunnel might be even easier way.
sorry I posted the video with the tricks in the wrong place