O.k., time for your first homework!
1. find a way to make your dog run as fast as he can, tape him from the side and study his striding in slow motion or even frame by frame: how far apart his hind feet are, how far forward hind feet reach over front feet, how long and high the stride is, how his back looks like and where his head is: many people think you want low head for running contacts, but in fact, you want the head look exactly the same as when running full speed in the fields 🙂
2. have a dog run over the plank, tape him from the side and compare it with the video above - tape it at the height you're currently at. If you're just starting, restrain the dog before your plank, carpet or whatever you're using, throw a toy and release. Slowly bring the dog further away from the plank to really have them come to the plank with full speed. Mark anything that looks like running in the fields from the first video, jackpot when feet are hitting at the end of a plank/carpet (where the contact will be), but reward anything that is running. Don't forget to click it or at least mark it with your voice! I prefer clicking, but you can also first use a voice and start clicking later, when you know your dog's stride better and can predict it better.
This is a good check-up for those who are already running their dogs on a raised plank and a good stride-study that will help you see and mark the correct striding better for those just starting. Once you see your dog is running nicely, with an even stride, hind feet separation and hind feet reaching further from front feet, you can put a brick or something under one end of the plank and have them run over slightly raised plank - I'll tell you when you're ready based on the videos you'll send.
And yes, we're for now throwing a toy in advance, letting the dog chase it, in order to get full speed. So yes, the dog is rewarded every time with a ball - so make sure that you really make the best tries even more special, use excitement in your voice, a play of tug on his favourite toy or food if that's his real preference - in short: make a party about the really good ones and don't worry about not so good ones - just throw that ball again! 🙂
3. to make it easier for the dog to understand what you're clicking for on that plank, we'll be teaching some tricks that are important to help them understand how to use their feet and that you might be clicking them for using them. The two things you will try this time is cavaletti work - walking the dog over drawers or boxes on the floor - and teaching the dog to step with front feet on an object and clicking for any movements of hind feet: the final goal is a full circle in both directions, but first click even for just a weight shift and then go from there.
Post a video with all 3 assignments, first two in slow motion please!!! - But PLEASE cut out all the parts where I can't see the dog: because seeing just the plank, and that is slow motion, is absolutely no fun - and you can't imagine how many planks in slow motion I saw by now!
Also, read all the comments and see as many videos as possible, you can learn A LOT through videos and comments of others, that's why we do it in a class form in a first place!
Two pictures showing what I mean by hind feet reach: hind feet must land further ahead from where front feet were:
Two pictures showing what I mean by hind feet separation: hind feet must be hitting two different spots as far apart as possible (vs. staying parallel, hitting the same spot).
To take the explanation of hind feet separation and reach forward even further, here is a discussion we had with a first class on it, this is my comment to those two videos:
Experimenting with a full low dogwalk
Experimenting with throwing his toy
My comment: he doesn’t run fast enough 
– That’s my answer to 90% of problems with running contacts, so you will probably hear that a lot in next few months Any BC, running full speed, is deep down the contact if doing two strides on a dog-walk ramp, period. Even my PyrShep who is 37cm (14.5″) does the down ramp in two hits and I even know a Papillon that is trying to, despite we would prefer him to do 3 hits Meaning that if a BC does 2 hits and is too high, he is not running enough. That’s some general info for everybody, I’m just using your videos to discuss this topic as they show some very nice tries and some “not running enough” tries.
On most tries, you can see his hind feet come just shortly more forward from where the front feet where. Normally, when the dog runs full speed, hind feet will land significantly further ahead from where front feet were – just like you can see in “experimenting with the toy” video at 1:16, 2:16 and 2:27 tries for example – those were very nice!!!
The faster the dog is moving, the further ahead from front feet hind feet will be landing and as a consequence, you will have MUCH bigger length covered as if hind feet hit where front feet were – meaning that if Bi’s front feet are above the contact, her first hind foot will be in the middle of the contact and the second one will be right at it’s bottom. - While if the dog’s hind feet only come to where front feet were, he is missing the contact in this situation - instead of getting a perfect one
That’s exactly why I always get suspicious when I hear people saying their dog is hitting with 4 feet. With a BC size dog, running full speed with good hind feet separation, it’s pretty much impossible to fit all 4 feet in. 3 is possible, but if they can fit all 4 feet in that small area, they don’t cover enough of an area and when they will be higher, all 4 feet will be out of the contact. Bi on the other hand is a typical example of the dog covering LOTS of an area, meaning that even if her front feet are landing in the middle of the down ramp (yeah, she desperately wants to do it in one hit), the second hind foot will be in the contact, as you can see in this video:
Complicated? Don't worry, it gets easier when you start to see the dog's stride 🙂
I have a question for my classmates. How many repetitions a day is everyone doing on their plank(s)? I have only been doing about 3-4 reps in the mornings before I leave for work and 3-4 reps in the evening when it cools off. Is this too much or not enough?
Thanks,
Melanie & Liberty
That’s a good question, I would like to know it too 🙂 I think if you started when the class started, you need to do about 15-20 repetitions per day, almost every day, to keep up.
I’m a bit confused reading this…. do you mean let your dog run 15-20 times on a plank (so about 10 “runs”” in 1 session?) every day?
Yes, almost every day -- if you want to get from zero to full height in 3 months. Of course, it goes faster with some dogs (good hind feet awareness and understanding of clicker definitely helps A LOT), but RC definitely takes quite some repetitions for the dog to get the idea and enough experience to be able to always be in at that speed.
We do 15 – 20 reps per day, one session, and then some cavaletti work 🙂
Wenche og Effie
Yeap,
we also try to do 10 -- 15 reps per session, and we try to do 1 session a day (although till now, that has not been the case…I think that there were 2 days that we did not practice RC).
Depends on the weather… But we have to transport everything to the training field and that is time consuming.
From October on, it will be more difficult for us to practise all day, since I’m starting a new professional career. But I just try to get a good foundation. But off course, we will do our best to practise everyday, but it is hard to say with the weather, time (training field occupied or not and equipment transportation)…
Kind regards,
Stevy
Huh, yes, it is way more complicated when you need to go somewhere and set up everything…
We do 10 -- 15 reps per day, one session.
I am trying to do about 10 -- 15 reps twice a day, however some days it will only be once and occasionally we are away so no reps!
Charlotte, Blaze and Ripple
I did 10 reps once or twice/day, nearly every day.
Amy and Little Spur
(who just nearly beat all the dogs at the trial last weekend!! Only three VERY fast, big dogs beat his time!! I am REALLY pumped!!! I know this RDW work has been key to his success and increased speed!!!)
OMG!! thats AWESOME Amy!!! Congratulations 😀
Megan and Liryk
Wow, how cool is that!!! Congratulations!
OMG! We are way behind everyone -- we have only been doing 8 to 10 reps running every two/three mornings before work. The other mornings we have been doing our Agility foundations exercises. It is dark when I return from work and we mainly work on tricks inside. Will have to increase running reps tomorrow….!! Fortunately, winter is nearly over and the days will be longer to practise after work.
Yeap, I know it’s sometimes hard to get so many repetitions in and it’s of course no problem if you do less, it’s just that you can’t expect then to be on full DW by the end of this class… But well, you can always finish it later, the important thing is to start the right way!
Hi Silvia,
Thanks to cheese I had this evening my puppy back for playing tricks! Thank you! Hope it’ll last because she gets so quickly bored. It always has to be new. Is it normal that she isn’t interested in repetitions even in agility?
Here you’ll find our last RC session (we’ve already made like 6 or 7 with only carpet). For the 1st time I’ve tried with a plank that my dogschool has (bec I don’t have a thin plank and it would be quite hard to get one) to see if you think I need to find a thiner one.
Céline
Yeap, you definitely need a thinner one. The carpet running looks great, but she is leaping on all the tries on a plank (she lands with front foot on by accident, she is trying not to). How quickly does she get bored? How many plank repetitions you can do?
I hope the video works! Here is some video of Blade running on the flat.
What is he running to in the video shot from under the A-frame? He is very airy in those shots, he doesn’t look too much in a hurry… In the other shots (with A-frame in the background), his striding looks better, can you get that same thing over the carpet?
Hallo Silvia, hello classmates, here comes my homework.
I guess Candis hasnt good seperated hind feet but on the field and the green plank she definitively runs full speed but although her hind feet are very closed. What can I do? No Running Contacts 😉 ? I think I cant change her style of running….
I get “the video is not available” message…
Im so sorry, my boyfriend is just checking it 😉
O.k., send a message when it works.
New try ;-). The data file was broken and we had to film everything new today…. I hope it works now!
Great, keep working on the plank, not marking the tries as the first one and jackpotting the tries as the second one. Add some more repetitions next time to give me a better idea of where you are at to see when to raise the plank. Great tricks too, very cool dog. What lines is she from, I love smooths!
Hello Silvia! But what about her hind feet? I think her hind feet are so closed you can see it when she runs on the field and she defenetively runs full speed. I have the sense when Candis speedups she uses both hind legs the same time to get more power. Could that become a problem in RC?
Youre right, smooths are the best ;-). Candis father is from Derek Scrimgeours Killibrae Sweep and her mother is from Aled Owens Bob , so Bi and Candis have the same grandfather ;-). Here is the homepage of her breeder http://www.border-collie-cks.de/. She is such a strong worker and not as sensitive as a lot of border collies are. I also love your Bi 😉
I think her hind feet separation is perfectly o.k. When they start running, for first few strides, their feet are together to power off both, but then they split and Candis feet definitely look splitted enough also on the plank, that second try on the plank was perfect. Thanks for the link, will check it to more details later, too many dogs to check them all out while still having lots of comments to answer 🙂 And yes, Bi is not at all sensitive either 🙂 I have two closely related BCs and one is extra soft and one is a pit bull 🙂
Silvia we are with a thinner pole and further, How do you see us?
than you
Looks good. You’re sometimes late with your verbal cue, you need to say it early enough to give her time to prepare. Also, make a big difference between rewarding really good ones (1:20, 1:26, 1:27) vs. not so good ones (1:22, 1:33). Time for even thinner and shorter pole!
Thanks Sylvia. I think Ink is ready to go to a small DW, so I will try that at training tonight.
Interesting you said that re Shim’s DW in competition- I think thats exactly what happened (even though no-one else agreed when I asked outside the ring haha). I think she got off balance as well and did pretty well to still get the contact esp as she was running very fast!
Kriszty
Yeap, to me it definitely showed a very good understanding! And yes, Ink looks ready for low DW!
Hello,
Au club j’ai donc mis 2 sauts en bout de DW. Problème si je suis trop en arrière sans lancer le jouet ou l’avoir posé après le saut Fluff ralentie et donc rate le running …. Sinon c’est plutôt bien ! la plupart sont bien dans le bas de la planche
Il y a aussi des erreurs à cause des 2 foulées, si la 1ere est trop haut elle ne peut pas être dans la zone et 3 foulées c’est plus possible non plus.
Va t’elle apprendre à contrôler ça ?
J’ai commencé à l’envoyer sur la DW en venant d’obstacles pas en face et d’un peu loin, … juste une chute sans gravité !
Et question: quand peut on travailler les pivots en fin de DW ?
Hello,
At the club I put two jumps after DW. Problem if I am too far back without launching the toy or having posed it after the jump Fluff slower and so miss the running …. Otherwise it’s rather well! Most are in the lower of the plank
There are also errors due to two strides, if the first is too high she can not be in the area and three strides is not possible either.
She will learn to control that?
I started to send her on the DW coming obstacles not in front and a bit far, …. just a minor fall!
And question: when can I work front cross at the end of DW?
Yes, I think she will learn to adjust her stride with more experience. For now, throw a toy when you end too much behind. And hm, well, you can do front crosses after DW if you manage to do them without being in her way 🙂 I only do front crosses off DW when there is a turn of 90 degrees or more after it. If it’s just a curve, I will sometimes do blind cross (as I never front cross if I want extension) -- but not very often, I’m not often that fast 🙂
we let her run the whole lowered DW. We also changed the situation into “running to a static toy”. I hope it is o.k for you and you can see her striding and give us some help where we have to go next. Normally Fine runs only the down ramp or the down ramp and center plank. Her contacts are deeper then. Looking forward to your comment.
Is she really? Because on the video you sent last time, whole DW hits were better as down ramp only hits, that’s why I suggested doing the whole DW. And I think she is giving you enough good hits to continue like that. I would actually start her with even more speed (sending to a wrap) as that will give you longer strides and deeper contacts. I would keep a static toy for some more sessions and then switch to a toy, thrown after the jump (not in advance anymore).
Thank you for reply. It`s good to hear that we can go on with the whole DW and with some sends to a wrap too. It might be a little bit easier to handle and to see the hits. I am also doing lots of hind leg work with tricks to get a better hind leg seperation.
Hi Silvia, our work on the whole DW doesn`t go really well. Fine rarely hits the contact. I would like to go back to plank-work. I think we have to work more on a reliable system of rewards and I have to train to see the hits on my own. Fine doesn`t know yet what to do on DW and the second RC class is a chance for us to redo the first steps of RC work. Is this something you would agree with?
Do you have a video of what happens if you send her in a wrap and run full DW, I would like to see it as I think she was doing so well that I’m really surprised to hear that… Some additional plank work never hurts, of course, but would still like to see a video…
These were the two sessions we did on whole DW. It might be a little too long -- sorry for that. I thought you needed a couple of runs to get a picture of what she does. I added a little sequence of the work on the plank we did two days ago. Looking forward to your comment.
Oops, I forgot the video…………………….
Huh, yes, she is going for 4 strides now, that’s not good for this size of a dog… Last time, with less speed, she was too high with 5 strides, but now she does 4 and is again too high… I guess she indeed needs some more plank work to understand the importance of going all the way down and doing the necessary adjustments when needed. So try to focus a lot on changing her starting position for the plank and only clicking nice hits (not clicking 6, 7, 8, 9).
Thank you. We will post a video with notes this week.
Hi Silvia, here a video of our last two sessions. I clicked all contacts. On the first part she is running from a cik around a pole; on the second part she was restrained right before the plank. I need some feedback about her striding and what we have to do now. For me it would be good to go on this way for some more sessions, because Fine doesn`t have enough hits yet and I have to improve my “click in time”.
oh -- I just noticed your answer to Kati about the cue for tempo on the plank. I will not use it on plank anymore -- sounds logical that she first has to learn about the contacts and then runs faster than fast. We will use her chasing mode for now.
I think I didn’t write it clear, but what I meant was that I do use “run fast” cue on the plank -- but I don’t use my DW cue -- until I don’t use the real DW.
Thank you! So we`ll go on the way we did.
But… Why are you rewarding everything? I think this time, we really need to focus on the importance of getting all the way down, so I wouldn’t reward 2, 6, 7, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13. As I said before, I would only reward hits and only jackpot the best hits, to get better understanding of the importance to get all the way down. So getting stricter would be the most important next step.
The click is our problem -- I sometimes click per accident -- I´m working on that. It`s just a risk we take -- Fine needs the click, so I try to see her hits; sometimes I click although I see that there is no hit, it`s like a reflex. No…I didn`t want to click everything, only the hits -- but I clicked for 6, 9 and 12. No click for 2, 7, 10, 11, and 13. I jackpotted nothing. Give us a few more sessions -- I`m learning a little bit slow, but I´m learning well.
I know the problem, clicking by reflex even when seeing it’s not good… If it happens, reward, but with no excitement. From what you wrote, I understood you rewarded everything thinking everything was o.k. If you can see the difference, then make a BIG difference in rewarding the best ones vs. the good ones vs. not good ones -- even when you click wrongly. Also, to be able to completely stop rewarding not so good ones, you could use a tunnel after the plank and only throw a toy for the good ones, maybe that will make her think more about it. With all the work you’ve done by now, she will probably have good enough forward focus that way too.
Yes, we do so already. When I click accidently she gets no reward (that was a problem before, because she didn`t bring the ball back, but now she does even when there is no reward). We will try with the tunnel. I think she will have good drive, yes. Today we did 15 repetitions and Fine had 13 very nice hits with her hind legs.
What I meant was to not throw the ball at all for non-hits: just call her back and do it again. -- So not throwing a ball in advance anymore, but only after: the tunnel will make it possible I think.
oops..i just read your last comment. For the next sessons I will also try to use an obstacle behind the plank and then only throw a ball when she hits the contacts. In this video I throwed the ball in advance (sorry for that: but it`s sometimes difficult to read all comments, and scrolling back to my old videos just needs about five minutes; any tip for me to get there faster? Or is itonly because of my slow computer? For me it was much more comfortable the way we did before: everyone sends his new video and comments on the end of the last page. Now I´m sometimes loosing some comments and videos, although I read all recent comments two times a day.).
But anyway we did nice sessions this week. Here is our last session, all runs are on the video. I actually jackpotted 9, 11, 12 and 13, but I think I should have jackpotted 2, 3, 4, 9 10 and 11. The best hits were 2, 4 and 9. What do you think, is this something you could agree with? Our set-up for this session: an angled jump before the plank (for cap), the plank and a thrown ball in advance. I will try a tunnel behind the plank and a “not always thrown ball” for the next sessions We used a jump here because of the rain and the danger of injury. Looking forward to your comment.
Yeap, I agree on what the best hits were. Keep working like this, you can also raise the plank some. I like this way of posting videos as it’s easier to see the progress and check back when necessary to compare, but now that I’m starting to know the students better, also the new ones, I remember it well enough that I don’t really need to do it anymore.
Thank you, Silvia. We will raise the plank a bit and then we will post a video soon, so that you can see how she does with an elevated plank. One more thing about the comments: I didn`t even notice that I loosed some comments `till your last answer to my video. The older way to send videos was much more easier to check this, because I only scrolled through the last four to five pages and then it was o.k.. Now I may scroll a whole morning but even then, I might loose some comments and videos. But you really don`t have to go back to this only because of me. I thought it might be a problem for others too and then we can change it.
We also got a comments feed option back, so I think that might make things easier to follow.
Here is Hasten’s afram outside a few weeks ago--this is where things started going bad—when we went to the great outdoors. It is quite funny to watch her frog-legged kick off.
Of course they went bad, everything goes bad with hoops!!! 🙂 My Bu never missed the A-frame contact in her life! And yet set her that hoop where you set it and poor Bu will need to miss her first A-frame contact or get killed… It’s all wrong where it’s set, it only teaches the dog to jump long and low over the contact as that’s the only way to not get killed by that hoop. You do NOT want the dog to land after A-frame where Hasten is landing! They need to push off and land much further than that if you want to keep it “maintainable”. This is NOT maintainable and it’s not good for their bodies! Time to throw that hoop in trash!
Is there ever a place to put the hoop that works? I agree— I think it was too close.
I have included the last of my lesson 1 vids. Some video I made this morning with the double wide (two dw planks) at 24″ and my ATTEMPT at the two back feet moving game. I have been working on this for at least a month--since I bought the Healing Video but I cannot seem to free shape it. I even went to luring it--but she still offers me so many behaviors that the rear foot move is NOT our friend. I have tried on different size bowls, tins and boxes…any ideas?
I also include her “Butt up” trick that we began teaching her at your seminar in March in Virginia--that at least shows she can maneuver her back legs and has some awareness. She can do it on a wall, anywhere…
As for the running contact video below—She is still looking at me too much--I can tell just in the video…will attempt throwing things but she really likes to INTERACT with a toy--not interested when it is going away from her.
Tonight we start back at the carpet on the ground!
Oh--one more thing--how do you add a picture to the thumbnail?
You definitely want to teach her to go get that toy in order to interact with it! You can do it away from your plank work, but you will definitely need it to be able to get real running. “Butt up” trick is too adorable!!! Y are also getting some hind feet circling, I think you just need to be patient, reward her a lot for front paws on a target so that she gets that part first and then go from there, shouldn’t be too difficult to get some hind feet action from such an active dog 🙂 once she understands the first part, front feet on a target. Definitely do some cavaletti too, to practise hind feet separation!
Hi Silvia and classmates,
Finally we had some dry moments this evening, so we could do some RC training.
(Otherwise the planks are too slippery.)
Yes Silvia it would be a very good idea to send you some rain for your grass and you could send us some degrees cause it’s getting colder, wetter and windier here. 🙁
I send her into a tunnel again, about 1,5 meter before the planks. When I put the tunnel further back she will not hit the yellow or she will run next to the planks, I hope this is ok?
I think I should paint her hindlegs some more white, 😉 because I think all I see is her (white) frontlegs,
also when I look back at the video in slowmotion I noticed the first try I was more behind then the others and then I can see it better when she hits the yellow with her hind legs.
Am I right that it’s better she would hit the yellow with separate hindlegs?
Jonina & Jin
Cool, she is really consistently in: that way or another. Hind feet are somewhat better (as they’re harder to get 🙂 ), but front feet are of course o.k. too. You could try moving a tunnel some (like half meter back), different starting point would probably give you different hits. You can also raise the boards some!
Ok thank you I will ” try ” to reward front feet (separation) hits and Jackpot hind feet (separation) hits! Tomorrow I will move the tunnel a little back and see what happens! Next week we will make the 4 planks as two so I can raise them some!
Hi Jonina,
I love your plank ( & plank work)…………hope you don;t mind me asking -what sort of wood did you use? I am trying to source one but not sure what to get, how thick and whether to reinforce it to prevent bounce.
thanks in advance
Hi Tsuey! Thanks! Of course I don’t mind! 😀
I went to a DIY store and bought a Mutiplex plank 2.44 m by 1.22 and there they cut it in the good size for me ( 4 planks: 1.90 by 30 cm) So I will put two planks together to have one plank (3.80 by 30 cm) So then I have two planks from 3.80 by 30cm and put these together in the beginning of the RC progress.