O.k., time for your first homework!
1. find a way to make your dog run as fast as he can, tape him from the side and study his striding in slow motion or even frame by frame: how far apart his hind feet are, how far forward hind feet reach over front feet, how long and high the stride is, how his back looks like and where his head is: many people think you want low head for running contacts, but in fact, you want the head look exactly the same as when running full speed in the fields 🙂
2. have a dog run over the plank, tape him from the side and compare it with the video above - tape it at the height you're currently at. If you're just starting, restrain the dog before your plank, carpet or whatever you're using, throw a toy and release. Slowly bring the dog further away from the plank to really have them come to the plank with full speed. Mark anything that looks like running in the fields from the first video, jackpot when feet are hitting at the end of a plank/carpet (where the contact will be), but reward anything that is running. Don't forget to click it or at least mark it with your voice! I prefer clicking, but you can also first use a voice and start clicking later, when you know your dog's stride better and can predict it better.
This is a good check-up for those who are already running their dogs on a raised plank and a good stride-study that will help you see and mark the correct striding better for those just starting. Once you see your dog is running nicely, with an even stride, hind feet separation and hind feet reaching further from front feet, you can put a brick or something under one end of the plank and have them run over slightly raised plank - I'll tell you when you're ready based on the videos you'll send.
And yes, we're for now throwing a toy in advance, letting the dog chase it, in order to get full speed. So yes, the dog is rewarded every time with a ball - so make sure that you really make the best tries even more special, use excitement in your voice, a play of tug on his favourite toy or food if that's his real preference - in short: make a party about the really good ones and don't worry about not so good ones - just throw that ball again! 🙂
3. to make it easier for the dog to understand what you're clicking for on that plank, we'll be teaching some tricks that are important to help them understand how to use their feet and that you might be clicking them for using them. The two things you will try this time is cavaletti work - walking the dog over drawers or boxes on the floor - and teaching the dog to step with front feet on an object and clicking for any movements of hind feet: the final goal is a full circle in both directions, but first click even for just a weight shift and then go from there.
Post a video with all 3 assignments, first two in slow motion please!!! - But PLEASE cut out all the parts where I can't see the dog: because seeing just the plank, and that is slow motion, is absolutely no fun - and you can't imagine how many planks in slow motion I saw by now!
Also, read all the comments and see as many videos as possible, you can learn A LOT through videos and comments of others, that's why we do it in a class form in a first place!
Two pictures showing what I mean by hind feet reach: hind feet must land further ahead from where front feet were:
Two pictures showing what I mean by hind feet separation: hind feet must be hitting two different spots as far apart as possible (vs. staying parallel, hitting the same spot).
To take the explanation of hind feet separation and reach forward even further, here is a discussion we had with a first class on it, this is my comment to those two videos:
Experimenting with a full low dogwalk
Experimenting with throwing his toy
My comment: he doesn’t run fast enough 
– That’s my answer to 90% of problems with running contacts, so you will probably hear that a lot in next few months Any BC, running full speed, is deep down the contact if doing two strides on a dog-walk ramp, period. Even my PyrShep who is 37cm (14.5″) does the down ramp in two hits and I even know a Papillon that is trying to, despite we would prefer him to do 3 hits Meaning that if a BC does 2 hits and is too high, he is not running enough. That’s some general info for everybody, I’m just using your videos to discuss this topic as they show some very nice tries and some “not running enough” tries.
On most tries, you can see his hind feet come just shortly more forward from where the front feet where. Normally, when the dog runs full speed, hind feet will land significantly further ahead from where front feet were – just like you can see in “experimenting with the toy” video at 1:16, 2:16 and 2:27 tries for example – those were very nice!!!
The faster the dog is moving, the further ahead from front feet hind feet will be landing and as a consequence, you will have MUCH bigger length covered as if hind feet hit where front feet were – meaning that if Bi’s front feet are above the contact, her first hind foot will be in the middle of the contact and the second one will be right at it’s bottom. - While if the dog’s hind feet only come to where front feet were, he is missing the contact in this situation - instead of getting a perfect one
That’s exactly why I always get suspicious when I hear people saying their dog is hitting with 4 feet. With a BC size dog, running full speed with good hind feet separation, it’s pretty much impossible to fit all 4 feet in. 3 is possible, but if they can fit all 4 feet in that small area, they don’t cover enough of an area and when they will be higher, all 4 feet will be out of the contact. Bi on the other hand is a typical example of the dog covering LOTS of an area, meaning that even if her front feet are landing in the middle of the down ramp (yeah, she desperately wants to do it in one hit), the second hind foot will be in the contact, as you can see in this video:
Complicated? Don't worry, it gets easier when you start to see the dog's stride 🙂
Hi there! Here is Dare’s trick training.
Cool, nice 2on2off, that will be one of the tricks we’ll do too 🙂 For pivoting, try to help less with your pressure and give her time to figure it out on her own, clicking for any slight hind feet movement first and then shape from there, without helping with your movement, to really make her think about her hind feet vs. just moving out of your way.
First I may have to apologize, I’m not sure if I’m replying to a post or adding a new one. I didn’t hit reply, just “your comment” but I’m still not sure.
Anyway, here are the videos of Dare running on the flat.
And lastly here are the first two sessions of Dare’s running contacts on the low DW. It seems she still doesn’t have her stride down, she’s still trying to figure it out. Now that I have the video producing down I’ll post them quicker.
Cool, definitely looks good enough to me to continue from here. Don’t forget to mark and reward the best ones so that she knows what you want. Her striding varies some, but she definitely seems determined about 4 strides. Do challenge her some with different approaches though so that she knows to adjust it as necessary. I would also work on different exits some (moving the exit jump some) to make sure she understands getting all the way down is important in every situation.
Thank you Silvia. I just want to make sure I have a clear picture of what I need to do from here. So I need to:
1) Tricks -- don’t lure so much click/shape any hind feet movement
2) Keep DW low
3) Work on different approaches -- Do I do approach and exits on different days? Or does it matter?
4) Work different exits
5) Mark the best behavior -- how do I do this? Am I marking her stride or her position in the yellow? What is best?
THANK YOU!
Exactly. Vary approaches and exits on different days, you can alternate between the two yes. You want to mark her position in the yellow -- striding is her concern, you mark&reward everything that takes her nicely deep into the yellow.
Hi Silvia! I started working varied approaches last night to the DW. I did some straight approaches and then angled and went back and forth between the two.
My question is, should I be turning back and trying to watch her strides? Or should I just listen to the number of “hits” and watch the yellow on the down? Then of course review my video later.
Thank you for your help.
Well, depends how many things you can do at the same time 🙂 I can’t see the striding and contact at the same time, so I focus on the contact and reward nice hits and study the striding on the video if there is a problem and I need more info. But with Bi, I can actually tell how her striding was based on the sound: big sound means she is again going for those 3 strides 🙂
Hi there! Dare and I again. Today I went out to work on entries/exits on the DW. I moved the DW so I could approach/exit with plenty of room. I thought I would start with straight entries/exits first. As you will see in the first video it was not good. After these shots. I stopped, gave her a break and regrouped. I thought I needed to get her running full out. The ones where she came off the side I had bad ball throughs. I’m not sure why this was so bad. She ran around and it was hot so maybe she was tired. Not sure. What do you think?
After we took a little break from the above video I decided to go back to the loops with a tunnel on one end a jump on the other, I was trying to get her to run full out again. Here is that session.
This is a video of all of today’s work from a different camera.
Well, you need to tell me more about those sessions… What was different in one vs. second vs. third? Is there something you did differently in 2nd session that it was so much better as other sessions? Can you reproduce it? If so, I would reproduce that successful session and then just start moving the tunnel and the jump A LITTLE.
I think what went wrong with the 1st session is Dare ran around and played with her friends while I set up the course. It is very hot here so I think by the time I trained she was hot. After I put her in the pool and let her rest for awhile she was better. I also went back to doing the running circle over and over: Tunnel-DW-Jump-DW-Tunnel, etc. That generated the speed and got her full out running.
So, start with that and move the tunnel and the jump just a LITTLE. Do I move it a little each day or do a few then move a little more do a few more and a little more?
Where do you prefer we post our stuff? I just put it with my old videos in case you needed to seem them I didn’t want you to have to search for them. But I guess I could just tell you what page its on.
Yes, the best is to post under your previous videos, it’s easier to follow also for other participants/auditors. But yes, if you can get successful rate from the 2nd video, then continue like that, moving the jump some -- I usually move it a little tiny bit two to three times per session.
I love Dare’s friends suporting her (him)!
Never a dull moment at my place… always someone running around. Well, almost always I know its not always ideal. Dare doesn’t mind, she’s focused on her task!
Hi Silvia, Here is Dare’s session for today. I think I got her running well today. When she is running from left to right in the video her approach is slightly varied. She is going over jumps on the left hand side of the DW. There are a couple of times when I was at the end of the DW and I pushed her off the side or I tried to FC once and I pulled her off as well. Do I keep on this track? How is it looking?
Yeap, that looks good, just continue like that. She mostly only misses on her 3 strides attempts… We do want 4 strides 🙂
Here is Monday’s session. She did pretty well. I made her entry a bit tougher. She started missing towards the end I think she was hot and tired. I think maybe I should stop sooner.
I forgot to say, I tried rewarding with food this time since she loves food. Then I played ball with her after the food. Also, she had a play break in the middle of this so I think I won’t letter run so much on her break. I’ll let her rest more and not run/play.
Yeap, you need to make sure you keep the successful rate high. A mistake here and there is o.k. so that she can learn the difference, but when there are too many in a row, stop, think what went wrong and maybe make it easier again. Keep adding difficulties at the rate that gives you about 80% successful rate.
Here is Ink’s flat work. I will use her because I am not really happy with what she is doing. I rewarded 1, did not reward 2, rewarded 3,4,5, not 6, rewarded 7 and 8. Sorry having problems with audio. Is that enough hind foot separation? I swapped from the ball to the manners minder, (about half way through), and I got nicer hits, and no real reduction in speed.
What do you think of this DW from Shim in her last trial? Is this overreaching with throwing front foot down?
Thanks
Kriszty
F:\Kriszty\Training Video 1\Ink Lesson 1.wmv
I agree with what you rewarded and the hind feet separation looks perfectly good to me! On that DW though her striding looks really strange, looks like she was somewhat off balance in the middle as she did that one funny airy stride in the middle? That’s why she came short for a nice contact and then makes an effort to put that front leg down. Of course, this is not the way you would want her to do all her contacts, but I think it’s good that they know many different ways how to get to that contact, so actually, I would reward a try like that too, just not jackpot it. She was definitely trying hard.
Sorry- try again to upload video. Wont let me delete repeat post.
Synergy running carpet. She seemed to collect at the end when I sent her to the tunnel again because it was so close. I think she was better running straight out to a toy.
Thanks,
Marla
Yeap, the tunnel was too close, she runs better with the toy. Looks ready for some plank running to me!
Thanks. That’s what I was thinking. So, she has been running 24′ of carpet (double width of DW). Should I start with just 12′ double-wide plank (two DW planks side by side)?
Yes, let’s try this. Just make sure the DW planks are not that thick that she could step on the edge and get hurt, you definitely don’t want that!
Well, I taped this before reading your comment. These are thick because they are from my real DW with rubber surface on top of the wood. She did these all in a row without a break so she’s a trooper!
So, if these are thick, I guess I need to find some thin wood? We are going out of town tomorrow morning for vacation and Regional competition for Nationals (with Spritz). So, I may be able to do a little plank running in the morning before we leave but won’t have new wood by then.
This is Synergy’s first time running planks (been running carpet the last week). These are 2 12′ long 12″ wide rubberized DW planks side by side.
What do you suggest for next steps?
Thanks,
Marla
Here is the slow motion version:
Ideally, throw even sooner and further, even if that means you need to move the planks back some. Her best runnings are from 2:38 on, you throw much better in the second part of the video as in the first part.
Those are actually not too bad and as she is running so well on them, you can actually raise it some (put something under one end), that will give you even less of an edge. Don’t forget to make a big difference between the best and not so good hits!
OK. So, put a little brick or something under the end she starts on. So, that means she has to jump up a little onto the plank as she exits the tunnel? And still keep both planks (double wide), right?
I hope to be able to make a big difference but am still training my eye. I can’t believe the difference when I look at the slow motion compared to when it’s live:-)
OK. Off on our trip so will continue with this next week.
Thanks!
Yes and yes 🙂 Have fun and good luck!
This is Toni and Hasten. I am having problems figuring out the technology of where and how to post--hopefully in the right place. Hasten is a 13 month old Parson Russell. She is wicked fast but very wreckless. We had worked the plank up to 16″ (sorry--don’t know the cm) and now they are falling apart. The first clip is her fast just running. Then slow motion, then after we chased her over my friend’s 30 acres, more running with fast and slow--she is so fast--she is hard to catch on quality film.
The last clip is Hasten and a few attempts back on the flat plank…all pretty bad.
This is exactly why I don’t want you to start on such a narrow plank. It’s hard for them to run full speed and stay on such a narrow plank on the floor, so all they learn is to leap off as fast as possible to get back to running. You definitely need to immediately go to wide carpet, before she gets too many bad habits and work there for a week or two to make her forget this leaping. Meantime, get a thin, wide (at least double of DW width) plank or plywood and start her there. If you have a video of how she was doing before things fell apart, post it, I might be able to tell you why things fell apart to be able to avoid it next time. My first guess would be: you didn’t work with enough speed right from the start -- that always makes things fall apart, that’s why I’m bothering everybody about it.
I actually started on the flat board on the ground like you demonstrated in Virginia in March. I used a flat piece of plywood (about 3ft wide) then built it up slowly. Once she had that I added a flat dw plank, then built that up to 24″. For yesterday’s video I just ran her as fast as I could and she definitely leaped on almost everything. She had been being more consistent but I was slowing down at the end and not running off as fast the higher it went.
I have added a few other clips that I have from the recent past. Will make more later and try going back to the wide plank or carpet.
O.k., yes, as I thought: not working with full speed. She is looking at you on the contact instead of forward AND you’re rewarding from your hand AND way too close, so she can’t run full speed over. I’m pretty sure that was not in my demonstration 🙂 Read instructions above, see some videos of others and start from zero. Forget about the hits, focus on her striding, speed and forward focus. Never reward so close, you need to use a ball and throw it VERY far. Don’t make it dependant on your position again, put yourself out of the picture, stand behind and watch her striding.
Will do tonight. And yes, I realize I am too close and “guarding” the bottom. Thanks!
Here’s a note to ” everybody ” who is in RC2 class. 😀
When you post your video on youtube and you didn’t ” Hide” it….
everybody who isn’t ” logged in” can see the video on the ” recent comment” page.
(For example:
RC2 lesson 1: Wende Saether, video Aug 28, 9.03PM and video Aug 28, 9,02 PM,
also Foundations 4: Gitte, video Aug 29, 9.43 AM)
I first tought I saw it wrong but then I asked Luc Smeets and Gitte and they noticed it too. Maybe some people don’t mind but if you do, change it on Youtube. Don’t make it ” private” because then nobody can see it, make it ” hide” (don’t know if it’s the good word on Youtube??) so only people who have the URL link can see it.
Happy training
Jonina 😀
Oh no, Gitte found out, it’s not because it’s not ” hidden” it’s because people post the URL link in the first 2 lines of the comment. Oops 😉
Finally our movie – not happy with her style at all, after a short brake from training she suddenly just have front feet hits, and sometimes miss the contact completely..
Do you know how she was striding before? And do you always start her with no speed? When you do plank only, she does two hits on down ramp but as she is starting from stand still, those are shorter as in real life and then with her second hit, she hits above the contact with front feet and then nicely in with hind feet really well separated. When she runs the whole thing, her stride is longer, so one time she came that deep that she couldn’t make another one and she just leaped off and on other tries, she shorten the last one some and gets in with front feet, but it’s unrealistic to get hind feet in with her length of stride if she does 5 strides, so front feet are actually o.k. -- better as nothing 🙂 If you wanted hind feet, she would need to come to DW with more speed and do it in 4 strides, as you can see in Bi’s video: hind feet must hit the down ramp first then, so that they’re above the contact with front feet with the next stride and in with hind feet. Is that’s how she was striding before the break? To me, things actually look great. She seems to know her job really well and try extra hard to be in that way or another, but with 5-stride pattern, she can’t be in any other way as that. Give her more speed on the approach and I think you’ll get 4 strides and hind feet. Let me know how it goes.
That helped a lot 🙂 I normally send her in with more speed, but because she has started jumping the up contact I didn’t want to train that at the same time, therefore I started here so close. Will try to send in with more speed next time!
Ah, it’s better to avoid it with stride regulator vs. starting her so close.
Ok, Karine is writing from Fannys computer 😛 New session today, tried to send her in with more speed but didn’t get any rear paws. Therefore I tried her on a much lower dogwalk. She was a little better, but she struggled a lot with just running the dogwalk, especially the middle plank. I have no idea why, and I tried to back-chain and to click here for just walking the plank, and it didn’t help at all. I think she got a little better after a lot of repetiton, but no chance to get just four strides..Here is the video with a few repetitions:
(Still Karine writing)I forgot to mention that Fanny’s dog where running in between our sessions, and he had no problem with the low dogwalk, so it was completely stable.
Uh, yes, to me it looks like she thinks it’s all about front feet… And she is overreaching too, no? You cut the video too short, but it sure looks to me as if she is falling on her nose too. So yes, I would definitely go to low DW. I think she is uncomfortable with the objects under the horizontal plank, as they stick out, but I guess she will get used to it with more repetitions. Hopefully she doesn’t get too much into old striding on down plank on this height by then as what I would like to see is she stops all that preparation work to get that front foot in and just runs… With low DW apex is less pronounced, so maybe she will be less tempted to do her adjustments there and might offer some of 4 strides pattern (and therefore hind feet hits)… Throwing toys in advance might help. Also, do lots of hind feet tricks meantime to make her think more in that direction too!
Hi to all!
Here’s our first video, of the 2 first exercices. We start working on the carpet and a bowl with food, then we work with the ball as I read here in some posts, and then one day with Celine we want to try with the plank and here’s the video, I must study my dog stride to improve my timming 😛
Well, let me know what do you think 😉 If I have to continue with the carpet or a lower plank.
Greetings
Oh! sorry the plank work is not in slow motion, then I’ll change it. If you prefer it.
Well, compare her hind feet separation and try to guess my answer 🙂 You need to go back to the carpet, but you need a longer one and you absolutely need to work with a ball, she is very bouncy on that carpet, running to food (that is too close anyway), so she didn’t learn anything there and you need to do that step again. Once you get the same style of running as on the floor, you need to do 5 more sessions on carpet and then you can try the planks again, but I really don’t like this one as it’s so very thick and she can really hurt herself if she steps on an edge and can then start to avoid that edge (NOT what you’re going for!). Can you get a thinner plank meantime? Now the good thing is that she runs really well after the ball on the ground, very low and efficient, with good hind feet separation. Now you just need to get it on carpet/plank!
Ok, thank you Silvia.
We will continue working with the carpet 😉