O.k., time for your first homework!
1. find a way to make your dog run as fast as he can, tape him from the side and study his striding in slow motion or even frame by frame: how far apart his hind feet are, how far forward hind feet reach over front feet, how long and high the stride is, how his back looks like and where his head is: many people think you want low head for running contacts, but in fact, you want the head look exactly the same as when running full speed in the fields 🙂
2. have a dog run over the plank, tape him from the side and compare it with the video above - tape it at the height you're currently at. If you're just starting, restrain the dog before your plank, carpet or whatever you're using, throw a toy and release. Slowly bring the dog further away from the plank to really have them come to the plank with full speed. Mark anything that looks like running in the fields from the first video, jackpot when feet are hitting at the end of a plank/carpet (where the contact will be), but reward anything that is running. Don't forget to click it or at least mark it with your voice! I prefer clicking, but you can also first use a voice and start clicking later, when you know your dog's stride better and can predict it better.
This is a good check-up for those who are already running their dogs on a raised plank and a good stride-study that will help you see and mark the correct striding better for those just starting. Once you see your dog is running nicely, with an even stride, hind feet separation and hind feet reaching further from front feet, you can put a brick or something under one end of the plank and have them run over slightly raised plank - I'll tell you when you're ready based on the videos you'll send.
And yes, we're for now throwing a toy in advance, letting the dog chase it, in order to get full speed. So yes, the dog is rewarded every time with a ball - so make sure that you really make the best tries even more special, use excitement in your voice, a play of tug on his favourite toy or food if that's his real preference - in short: make a party about the really good ones and don't worry about not so good ones - just throw that ball again! 🙂
3. to make it easier for the dog to understand what you're clicking for on that plank, we'll be teaching some tricks that are important to help them understand how to use their feet and that you might be clicking them for using them. The two things you will try this time is cavaletti work - walking the dog over drawers or boxes on the floor - and teaching the dog to step with front feet on an object and clicking for any movements of hind feet: the final goal is a full circle in both directions, but first click even for just a weight shift and then go from there.
Post a video with all 3 assignments, first two in slow motion please!!! - But PLEASE cut out all the parts where I can't see the dog: because seeing just the plank, and that is slow motion, is absolutely no fun - and you can't imagine how many planks in slow motion I saw by now!
Also, read all the comments and see as many videos as possible, you can learn A LOT through videos and comments of others, that's why we do it in a class form in a first place!
Two pictures showing what I mean by hind feet reach: hind feet must land further ahead from where front feet were:
Two pictures showing what I mean by hind feet separation: hind feet must be hitting two different spots as far apart as possible (vs. staying parallel, hitting the same spot).
To take the explanation of hind feet separation and reach forward even further, here is a discussion we had with a first class on it, this is my comment to those two videos:
Experimenting with a full low dogwalk
Experimenting with throwing his toy
My comment: he doesn’t run fast enough 
– That’s my answer to 90% of problems with running contacts, so you will probably hear that a lot in next few months Any BC, running full speed, is deep down the contact if doing two strides on a dog-walk ramp, period. Even my PyrShep who is 37cm (14.5″) does the down ramp in two hits and I even know a Papillon that is trying to, despite we would prefer him to do 3 hits Meaning that if a BC does 2 hits and is too high, he is not running enough. That’s some general info for everybody, I’m just using your videos to discuss this topic as they show some very nice tries and some “not running enough” tries.
On most tries, you can see his hind feet come just shortly more forward from where the front feet where. Normally, when the dog runs full speed, hind feet will land significantly further ahead from where front feet were – just like you can see in “experimenting with the toy” video at 1:16, 2:16 and 2:27 tries for example – those were very nice!!!
The faster the dog is moving, the further ahead from front feet hind feet will be landing and as a consequence, you will have MUCH bigger length covered as if hind feet hit where front feet were – meaning that if Bi’s front feet are above the contact, her first hind foot will be in the middle of the contact and the second one will be right at it’s bottom. - While if the dog’s hind feet only come to where front feet were, he is missing the contact in this situation - instead of getting a perfect one
That’s exactly why I always get suspicious when I hear people saying their dog is hitting with 4 feet. With a BC size dog, running full speed with good hind feet separation, it’s pretty much impossible to fit all 4 feet in. 3 is possible, but if they can fit all 4 feet in that small area, they don’t cover enough of an area and when they will be higher, all 4 feet will be out of the contact. Bi on the other hand is a typical example of the dog covering LOTS of an area, meaning that even if her front feet are landing in the middle of the down ramp (yeah, she desperately wants to do it in one hit), the second hind foot will be in the contact, as you can see in this video:
Complicated? Don't worry, it gets easier when you start to see the dog's stride 🙂
Here’s my #1 & #2 homework videos.
In a couple of the running shots the spot where the video picks up him running he’s actually decelerating which is easy to spot because of the tail.
On the carpet -- it’s about 2 planks wide. I was having some issues getting him to actually run on the carpet so for now I’ve started him quite close so he probably hasn’t hit full speed. The one double plank shot at the end had him coming from further back.
Silvia, are we jackpotting any feet hits near the end of the plank? So front vs. rear doesn’t matter? Also, do you want sound so you can hear clicks or can i just mute the video?
Thanks!
Cool, your video shows different types of striding really well, so let’s discuss what to jackpot some more. I would jackpot 2, 4, 5 , 6 and 8. Front and rear feet doesn’t matter, I reward both, BUT if you want to have a preference, definitely prefer hind feet over front feet because many people tend to do the opposite and some get in trouble because of that as it’s easier for the dog to understand front feet and then it’s harder to get hind feet too -- and it’s important the dog has as many options open as possible as doing it with front feet in every situation probably won’t be possible -- AND it’s physically much harder to do it with front feet vs. hind feet once you’re on full height.
Also, that one front foot (as in 3) right at the edge is not perfect (hard to see for the judges and easily happens to be on the floor already) -- you can of course reward, but not jackpot. 1 and 7 I didn’t like that much because hind feet were closer together as normally.
Anyway, definitely looks good enough to stay on that plank and raise it some after 3 to 5 successful sessions in a row (3 if you’re raising it just a little bit, 5 if you don’t have an appropriate object to raise it just a little bit). You can leave the sound or write it down what was clicked and what was jackpotted, just so that we make sure we agree on best tries 🙂
Silvia,
OK, so I will jackpot rear feet with good separation. I’ve seen others ask similar questions about reward/jackpot & clicking but it’s hard to follow your answers on this forum. So -- right now I’m clicking for any feet near the end of the plank and he gets his ball as a reward. I’m jackpotting rear feet near the end of the plank with separation (ball + food and/or more ball tosses & excitement). Then i’m trying to not click leaps or basically anything else that doesn’t meet above criteria -- however he does still get the ball. Is this correct?
In this video, I managed to send through a curved tunnel & still throw the toy. Had a couple of tries where he missed the plank totally but I think he’s getting the idea of getting on the plank.
I jackpotted 1,2 & 5. clicked all since there were feet near the end of the plank in all tries.
Great! His hits are really nice! I agree with rewarding all, only that beside 1, 2 and 5 I would also jackpot 4, that was a great one too (three feet in!). Time to raise that plank some. The easiest to find my comments is to check “recent comments” page (left side bar).
Silvia,
Is it ok to switch back and forth between using the double wide dogwalk planks and an aframe? I have access to different things at different places. I’m wondering if it’ll mess things up to have him running over the 12 foot plank vs. the 18 foot aframe? My aframe goes totally flat and has about the same thickness as the dogwalk planks.
Thanks!
Sure, no problem switching between the two!
Silvia,
A couple more questions for you. I tried 2 sessions on my flat Aframe and that was just a mess. He had only 2 reps where 1 foot was rewardable. Everything else (15 reps) was either him not running on the plank or him running on the plank but reaching the last stride so as to hit just off the board. Seemed like he was purposefully doing that. So I decided to toss the idea of working on the AF for now as perhaps it’s just too high from the ground.
Additionally, my session on 2 DW planks yesterday went fine. However, i noticed that since i was working from a curved tunnel that he was hitting 90% with the left front foot (only) every time. I saw one of your comments to someone else to give the dog more room to run before getting on the planks so they can offer more strides. So today I tried that. I still used the tunnel but moved it back. I had a terrible time getting him to actually run on the plank from further back. Pretty frustrating. I tried using some wings to make it more clear but that impeded my throwing.
Do you have any suggestions to help them choose to run on the plank? Should I just continue to keep the space small before the planks so there aren’t options? That way I can start raising up my plank? Thanks!
But… He is running really nicely on that plank on the video you last posted? And now he is avoiding it??? And no, my suggestion was not to move the tunnel a lot back as no, that won’t give you more strides on the plank at all. My suggestion was to move the tunnel back just a little (for half of the stride) to change the starting point and get different striding pattern on the plank: where the dog hits the plank the first time affect where and how he hits it second time. However, it’s still good that the dog has some space before the plank to get to full speed before it… How far is your tunnel when he is still finding the plank?
Ok, Thanks!
I think I had good success with the tunnel really close -- maybe 8′ (<3m). I definitely moved the tunnel too far back so I will play around with that.
Tonight, I had the tunnel probably 4m back from the planks and the first 3 throws (which were good & straight right down the plank) he ran off the side. So I just went to having him start from a sit about 3m back and that worked well and he was still running well. I also tried for the first time elevating the edge a little and that didn't seem to cause any problems. He gave me a variety of hits actually and a lot of really good ones when he runs the planks!
I think he sometimes just thinks we are playing with the ball and the tunnel! So I will play with incrementally moving the tunnel back so he can be successful. Hopefully once he gets enough jackpots he will realize the plank really pays!
Finding the planks will get easier with more height, so I wouldn’t worry about it and would simply use a tunnel 3 or maybe 3.5m away -- probably still better as sit stay 3m back as it gives him a faster start. Good to hear you are getting more variety of hits now and many good ones is always good to have too 🙂 As long as he is running nicely, you can keep raising the planks some.
Here’s the video for the rest of my HW#1 :
I’ve also been teaching him to back up and back up the stairs as I don’t think he currently has good hind end awareness (trying to fix that!!)
My plank work has been going well. I have been slowly increasing the height and am at 6″ or so now and will go up again tomorrow. I am using some jump standards along with jump bumps to make a chute of sorts to help him get on the plank. This is working really nicely and I’ve also been changing the distance I’m sending him from -- around a cone so he’s running.
When do we start going to a short table with an up ramp? Punk is about 22.5″ tall so getting on the 6″ elevation doesn’t seem to be a problem right now.
Great job with tricks! Happy to hear he is still doing so well on his plank! You can use a table already for your next elevation: even if he is still jumping on, it might be safer when he is jumping on a table first. Your next set up would then be single up and down ramp to the table and then low DW if you can lower it.
Silvia, I’m trying to absorb all that you are saying here. Is there more than hind feet separation that you like the most about 2,4,5,6 and 8? Specifically, reps 3 and 4 look very similar to me. Can you help me tell the difference?
Hind feet separation is a criteria to reward. A criteria to jackpot are the nicest, “safest” hits -- you’ll see this discussed to more details with Stevvy. My problem with #3 is that if the stride would be just a little bit longer, it would be no hit try. The thing I like about 4 is that it was very safe hit: if the stride would be longer, it would look like #3 hit and if it would be shorter, it would be hind feet hit. Plenty of room for variations. I also prefer 3 feet in in #4 vs. 1 foot in in #3 🙂 AND I don’t like one front foot hits on a real DW too much, La does it like this because back then, I believed those will be the easiest to see for the judges, but actually, they’re the hardest to see (especially when very low on a contact) + I feel it’s hard on her shoulders -- it looks hard AND many dogs (Bi included) who used to have mostly front feet hits on a plank switched to exclusively hind feet hits on full height. So if they like it better, I like it better too 🙂 Of course, #4 is front feet hit too, but it’s closer to rear feet as #3. Both are running of course, but I prefer feel placement of #4 over #3.
OK, that’s very, very clear. And actually, I’ve now watched so many more videos just since asking this question, that I can see this even better now. 🙂
Hi Silvia and classmates,
here are my videos of our first homework.
First video is the general running. It is the first time that I focus on his running stride 🙂
Second video is the plank work. I don’t have contactzones on the plank yet, so I did not add comments if he was in or not. Especially since the purpose is to let the dog run at full speed on the plank.
I experienced difficulties with throwing the ball….I need to work on that one.
I think there are some excellent try-outs, but also some where Jedd runs next to the plank (especially when I’m a little before the dog for throwing the ball).
Finally, the video of the 3th exercise.
Ladderwork was not that simple for me. Sometimes I put a treat between some bars so Jedd goes slowly and controlled through the ladder.
Since this is the first time that I upload some videos here, any feedback is welcome to improve the efficiency here on this forum.
Also, any feedback on the homework exercises are welcome.
Should we practise this everyday or once in 2 days?
Thanks for the feedback,
Stevy and Jedd
Oh, you don’t need to write if he is in or not, I can see that myself 🙂 -- and I don’t care about it at that stage at all anyway 🙂 What I want to know is what you clicked and what you jackpotted, just so that we make sure we like the same tries -- see Grace’s video and my explanation on good vs. not so good hits. With Jedd, you sure got some excellent hits and on some tries, I miss some more hind feet separation -- compare how far apart his hind feet are when running on grass vs. running on plank -- it’s quite a difference. But I think you’ll get it once you start him further back and throw a ball sooner. Do you have a tunnel you could send him through first to have him start with more speed? It would also give you more time to throw a ball soon enough. It’s no big deal if he runs to the side sometimes… -- you could help him with some posts or wings to be able to find the plank better. To keep up with the class, you need to do plank work almost every day. The tricks, you can do every other day.
He is doing really well with the tricks! He is offering you so much action on that target that you don’t need to help with your movement at all: stay static, click for movement and help only by rewarding him to the side, so that he turns his head away from you: that will give you some more steps in the same direction and eventually a full circle. This ladder is quite difficult for him as there is so little room in between -- something wider would be easier to start with, but he will get it that way too.
Hi,
today I did a short second session (before I read your feedback), and here is the result.
Of the 5 attempts, I jackpotted the last 4.
My clicks are too early. I’m too focused on throwing the ball, and not on the hind feet separation, … So when I throw, I immediately click to be on time. I give a jackpot after the normal click when I find it excellent, but this is based on my feeling instead of hind feet separation…
Next time, I will focus on timing of the click and more on the dog, instead on focussing on ball throwing.
I wil use a tunnel for speed.
Hi Silvia,
here is my video of today’s session. My focus was to check the hind feet separation and the timing of my click. Not an easy task 🙂
In the beginning I used a tunnel for speed.
I thought that Jedd did not ran at full speed, and after a few tries, I practised without a tunnel to see the difference.
Besides that Jedd sometimes ran next to the plank, my overall feeling was that he did not ran at full speed.
When editing the video, I saw that it wasn’t so bad after all (I guess).
And saw some pretty good hind feet separations, although I didn’t see it when practising (too much to think about and at this moment too fast to see it clearly).
Trics I did today (but not taped it), was backing up on a stair and a sit-up.
Tomorrow I will do the perch and ladder tric again.
(I accidently replied the same message to another user, please disregard that one. I didn’t find a way to delete it.)
Thank you and kind regards,
Stevy & Jedd
1 remark: due to my overall feeling that he didn’t ran at full speed (I didn’t see it that clearly -> inexperienced I guess), I did not jackpot a lot.
Yeap, the speed looks good to me and hind feet separation is MUCH better now, so I would jackpot many more tries. I would keep working with a tunnel, clicking as he runs the end of the plank, trying to see what his hind feet are doing and jackpotting the best tries. A couple of more sessions like this and you can raise the plank some.
Hi Silvia,
here is my plank work of today. I used a tunnel again.
I was pretty satisfied with it. I sometimes threw the ball not good, due to my back injury (since yesterday)… auw auw. I think that caused Jedd to run next to the plank sometimes.
Here are also 2 videos of some trics (exercise 3). With the perch work, I tried to stay static like you mentioned in your first feedback.
Also, on the ladder work, I used some bars to have a little more distance between them. These were exercises of yesterday.
Today I did the stairs backup.
(I don’t know if it is necessary to post those trick videos here??)
Thank you and kind regards,
Stevy & Jedd
To avoid a problem with not running over the plank and instead be able to focus on other, more important things, you can set some wings or something to mark the plank better, that will allow you to focus on running and hits instead. You can also add a little bit of height as he is definitely running every time, no leaping.
Very nice backing up the stairs, I love how well he uses both legs, alternating between the two. Nice perch work too, he is offering you lots of movement already and in both directions, great job!
Hi Silvia,
in this session, I used a tunnel for speed, a higher plank, and 2 ‘wings’ to mark the plank better.
Occiasionally, he still runs past it, but most of the time it was okay.
I did 3 work-outs: me on the left, me on the right and me on the left again.
Work-out 1 left: I noticed that Jedd bends his path off the plank. He comes up okay, but then he bends and
exits the plank a little bit on the left side. Very difficult to see on the video.
Work-out 2 right: I found this session very satisfying, and was very pleased with our performance.
Work-out 3 left: Since I was not satisfied with session 1, but very pleased with session 2, I decided to do a
short work-out on the left again.
Still the same issue.
Later on I ran a little bit aside Jedd to support him running straight and it went better.
But at 3 of the last 4 tries, I think I saw some leaping, although I was not sure…. video editing will bring the answer.
So here are the weird exitst: 7,8, but especially 22,23 and 25. His hind feet are separate at the plank before the contact, but
then it looks like Jedd is leaping. What do you think?
Can you advise?
Thank you and kind regards,
Stevy & Jedd
Is that double plank that you’re using? If not, USE IT, it’s really a waste of time to focus on unimportant things like this. Instead, focus on his striding. I know it’s hard to see it in live, but ideally, you would reward differently the following tries:
1. -- I wouldn’t click that. He is looking back at you (you throw too late) and leaps off
6. -- somewhat leapy
8. -- and 25. definitely leapy -- extending last stride to get off that plank -- ideally you wouldn’t click that, even less jackpot
What reminds me… Didn’t you work on that really nice thin plank? Why on earth are you using that terrible plank that can hurt his paws terribly if he steps on the edge? Go back to the nice plank NOW. You can raise it, the dog is fine, but this plank is terrible. Don’t use it again until you have enough height that the edge doesn’t look so dangerous anymore.
Yep, that was a double plank.
I will use the thin plank again and raise it only on the side where he enters the plank, so on the tunnel side.
I wasn’t aware that this plank was so terrible, otherwise I wouldn’t have use it. You mean that when his paw partly is on the plank and partly off the plank, he sprains his paw?
But couldn’t this be the case with the thin plank, or is the risk less? (I just want to understand, because the health of Jedd is the most important.)
Try to do it better today 🙂
Yes, when they step that way and there is a big difference between the plank and the ground, it can be dangerous and uncomfortable for the dog. That’s why DW planks are cut diagonally at the end, so that when you have some angle, they come all the way to the ground -- at that point, those planks will be good to use, but not until then. On a thin plank, you don’t get this edge as there is no thickness to stick out of the ground.
Hi Silvia,
I used the thin plank again, but raised it a little bit.
I was very, very pleased with today’s session.
It went great and almost every try was a jackpot.
If felt also great, my clicks were good, Jedd was running.
When looking at the video, nbr 9 should also been a jackpot.
Kind regards,
Stevy
GREAT! You could of course jackpot 9 too, of course, it’s beautiful. Another session or two like this and you can raise it some again!
Hi Silvia and classmates,
here is the session of today. It was very good, but a little less then previous time…
(I still find the hind feet separation very difficult to see, especially since I see cleary the rear leg closest to me, but
not so clearly the rear leg on the other side.)
Thank you and kind regards,
Stevy and Jedd
Well, as he is definitely not leaping, you can raise the plank some and continue to select for best hits on new height.
Hi Silvia and classmates,
here is today’s session with the new height.
It was pretty good.
In case you did not notice, I’m placing the ‘wings’ every session a little bit more away from the plank. I think he is starting to understand that running on the plank is the purpose.
I have a question for within a few sessions. If I keep raising the plank, he needs to jump on it. In the near future, will be it necessary to provide some kind of smooth approach instead of jumping? Fe some kind of ‘upcontact’.
Can you also advise on this one please, so I can start to build it.
Thank you for your feedback and advise!
Kind regards,
Stevy and Jedd (he is doing great)!
Cool! And yes, you’ll soon need an up ramp, but for up ramp, you could use the DW plank, it’s o.k. for up ramp as they don’t tend to step on the edge going up.
Hi Silvia,
here is our today’s session.
I used a double ramp up, with wings.
The first time he ran over the up contact, but then exited the up ramp.
From then on, I used an extra set of wings next to the up ramp and it was much better. Next time I can increase the distance between the wings and the up ramp. I hope Jedd figured it out that he has to run on it and not next to it.
Silvia, I’m trying to click for running the down plank, not if he would in the down contact or not.
The behaviour isn’t always the same, for example nbr 5 his hind feet would be in the contact zone. In nbr 3 and 6 his front foot/feet are in the contact zone.
Also, is he leaping at nbr 11 and 12? And maybe nbr 7?
It wasn’t visible at the workout, but I saw it when editing the video.
Thanks for the feedback and kind regards,
Stevy and Jedd
Yeap, all those tries are o.k., front or hind feet in the contact are o.k. He is not leaping, so at this point I would raise the criteria and stop marking tries when he is not in, like 7, 11, 12 and 13. Only click hitting the contact with separated hind or front feet now.
Okay, thank you Silvia
we will do that
(I already painted the contact zone -- 90 cm).
Plank is still 60 cm wide.
Kregards,
Stevy
Good. For now, I would keep this set up, raise it some and if that goes well, switch to single plank up ramp, add some height again and then switch to single down ramp.
Hi Silvia,
today we did our first session with the new criteria: jackpot when hitting the contact.
With me at the right side, almost every try (except the 1st one) was jackpot.
With me at the left side, there was no hit in the contact at all. With the last 2 tries, I placed the exit of the tunnel +- 50 cm further away from the upramp, and there was twice 1 foot in the contact.
Mostly when the up contact was missed, the down contact was missed also.
Except for nbr 2, all other hits was with only 1 foot instead of 2. I noticed this only on video.
It was clear for me if he had the contact are not, but still hard to see for me if it was with 1 or 2 feet.
I forgot to paint the small side of the plank, only the real contact, so contacts are hard to see on video.
Thank you and kind regards,
Stevy and Jedd
A little bit on best hits for everybody: I see enough, exact borderline is not my concern, it’s judges’ concern. You need to look at the contacts wider as how many feet are in 🙂 Hits 3, 4, 5 and 6 were all perfect because they were “safe”: if his stride would be 0.5m (20 inches) shorter, you would get nice hind feet hit (as in 2) and if it was 0.5m longer, you would get nice front feet hit. -- That’s great: you got that one meter covered and he is right in the middle of it. However, I don’t like 15 and 16. If his stride would be 5cm (2 inches) longer, it would be a miss. So I wouldn’t jackpot 15&16 (you can reward it for now though), but would jackpot 2 to 6. Did you try moving back to the other side, does it give you nice hits again? Is it about the side or beginning vs. end of a session?
Thanks for the feedback.
I did not tried the other side again.
I don’t think it is about the side, but the left side was at the end of the session. And on the position of the tunnel.
For 15 and 16, I moved the tunnel 0.5m away from the up contact to experiment on his stride.
Since all previous tries on the left side failed, and this ones were better (not great, but better), I jackpotted this to end the session positive.
Next time, I will start the session on the left side.
Silvia, do you mean to jackpot only the safe hits, no matter if it is with 1 or 2 feet?
Jackpot safe and 2 feet hits as 2 feet hits are actually pretty safe too (you have about 30cm of possible variations in both directions: that’s really good too).
Hi Silvia,
here is our session of today. It was not so great.
In the first 2 tries, I only used 1 set of wings only on 1 side, the far side. But Jedd still ran past it, so I placed an additional set. When should these helping objects be left away, because I try to fade them a little bit, but Jedd still needs them? Is that bad in this phase of training?
I also noticed on video that he had troubles with the up ramp on nbr 12/13/14 and 15. Don’t know the exact reason, but could be that the space between the 2 combined up ramps was increasing. Next time, I will secure it much better, just as precausion.
Concerning jackpotting, I tried to follow your feedback and only jackpot safe hits.
Therefore I did not jackpot a lot. Today, Jedd missed a lot of contacts.
Although 10/16 and 17 were good hits, his head was too high, and therefore not running at full speed, right?
If he is nice in the middle of the upcontact with his front feet, the downcontact will mostly be okay also.
Although I find it very strange that sometimes his front feet hit the upcontact nicely and the other time not. The distance tunnel -- upramp doesn’t change…so he adapts his stride. What do you think about it?
This stage of training is, for me, the hardest till now.
Thanks for the much appreciated training. After every session, I’m really looking forward to your feedback!!
Kregards
It’s no problem to keep the wings for a while. But maybe you could try single plank (with wings) again as I think it would be good to soon go to low DW to give him more room to adjust his striding. Not sure why his striding for going up is different, but you could maybe also mark up contacts with your voice, saying “yes” for good ones. 10 is not too good no, I wouldn’t jackpot that, but 16 and 17 are nice, I would jackpot those.
Hi Silvia and classmates,
first of all, thank you for the valuable feedback Silvia.
Jedd is doing great. Here is the training of today.
Nbr 8 should also be jackpotted.
Concerning the DW plank as up ramp, should it also be a double plank or is a single plank okay.
Should there be a table between the up ramp and down plank or just up ramp -- down ramp?
Thank you and kind regards,
Stevy & Jedd
Hi,
additional question. If it is okay to use a table in between the up and down. The up, at this stage, does it need to be the up ramp of a DW? Or is a plank of approx 1.2 m also okay. So 1.2m up plank, table of 1 m and the down plank.
Yep, I’m thinking about difficult possibilities how to construct it, but I’m not figured it out yet. I don’t know what is the best set-up for the best progress (table in between or not, use DW up ramp or shorter plank…), so I’m waiting for your feedback .
Thx
Stevy
You could use a shorter plank for an up ramp yes, but DW plank would be even better.
Great!!! Time to raise it some more 🙂 For an up ramp, I would use single ramp, to get him used to running over single ramp too as your next set up will already be low DW. But first, up ramp to a table and this plank as a down ramp would be great, if you can make it stabile enough.
Hi Silvia and classmates,
this session was not so great.
(Belgian World Cup competitors for Liévin where training today at the adjacent field, and some were watching what
we were doing on our new setup, so I felt some extra eyes over my shoulder 🙂 And the up ramp didn’t work out…)
Okay, back to our session.
After a few repetitions with an up ramp, I decided to remove it since Jedd was running past it. He takes the first step on it, but then aborts.
Without the up ramp, it was better, but he has to jump higher on the table. I had 1 really bad throw. Also nbr 7 should not be jackpotted, since his hind feet separation was not that great.
Compared with previous sessions, I ran a lot more along with Jedd. I realised this after the training session, and I did this unconscious. I think due to the spectators…
Anyway, what do you think about this session Silvia?
How should we solve the up ramp?
Thank you and kind regards,
Stevy and Jedd.
(Ps looking forward for the Agility Foundation registration for Octobre 🙂 )
Yeap, he is higher now as the table prolongs the plak and he doesn’t get so deep to the plank with the first hit as he was before (and not as deep as he will later, when this becomes a DW and he will be jumping the apex). So up ramp would be good. What if we make it a doble plank after so that it’s easier for him to stay on? You can also mark it with wings better (maybe making some kind of a chute?) -- wings at up ramp are not a problem as he can’t cue from them. And maybe for now pull a tunnel closer?
Okay,
thank you Silvia for your feedback.
Tomorrow I will use a double up ramp and set wings in front. If he still jumps of, I will set an additional set of wing in the middle of the double up ramp.
Plus the tunnel a little bit closer to the up ramp.
Looking forward for the session tomorrow, in a less crowded environment.
Thanks!
Hi Stevy, how wide is your plank?
thanks gabi
Hi,
down plank is 60 cm wide and 3.8 m long.
Up ramp in this session was a standard DW up ramp (30 cm wide).
Kind regards,
Stevy
ok the same as I`ve
Thanks a lot! -happy training,
gabi
Things didn’t quite go to plan over the break with making my plank.
I’m finding it very difficult to get a plank with the right dimensions. The closest ready cut plank i can get is 29cm wide, 3m long, 2cm thick -- is it possible to do the training on a shorter plank or will that mess up her striding? My other option is to see if my next door neighbour can cut me one -- he’s a carpenter (but he’s away on holidays at the moment).
I might be able to get a ready-made one 3.5m long, but it would be thicker. What do you think?
A long thick plank wld prob be very heavy to drag to the park every day though! My other option is to wait until the next RC class -- I’m moving house at the end of the year and planning to get a house with a great backyard for agility 🙂 When is the next class planned for?
Hi Camilla,
What a pitty you can’t find a good plank. 🙁
I went to a DIY store and bought a Mutiplex plank 2.44 m by 1.22 and there they cut it in the good size for me ( 4 planks: 1.90 by 30 cm) So I will put two planks together to have one plank (3.80 by 30 cm) So then I have two planks from 3.80 by 30cm and put these together in the beginning of the RC progress.
I have to drag it too, it’s heavy but if I can do it…. you can! 😀
I hope I helped you with this information.
So great to hear you are going to move to a house with a big backyard for agility!! I’m jealous! 😀
ha ha..You are awesome! So glad someone else is dragging too 🙂 Great idea to have 2 shorter ones -- easier to carry. How will you join the 2 x 1.9m when you raise the height?
Yeah, I’m so excited about moving -- i’m going to a place called Warrnambool which is in the country (3.5hrs from melbourne) + also on the coast with humpback whales every September. Uni were supposed to provide Grace & I free accomodation but they have now decided they don’t like dogs so only offered me accom if i didn’t take my dog. WHATEVER! Grace and i have just decided we’ll find an awesome place with a big yard or praps even a little farm
For smaller, short-striding dog, 3m would be o.k… But for Grace… I don’t think so… You could use somewhat ticker one though, but yes, it makes it even harder to drag it around… Next class is planned for end of December/beginning of January.
Here is Blaze’s first session on the new set up (changed from table to plank to low dogwalk as suggested).
Let’s keep a starting point you had her for 5, 6, 11 for a while. Put a mark where you started her for those 3 strides and try to get 3 successful sessions of hits like that, starting from that point. Then move her for one stride back.
Well, this morning’s session on the low dogwalk with Blaze was pretty good. 2 jackpot repetitions, 8 rewardable (one I don’t think I should have rewarded) and 3 no reward reps. So I was pretty happy.
This afternoon was a totally different story! Lots and lots of jumping. I did get two good reps but I’m too scared to count up the failures!!! I hope tomorrow morning’s session is much improved. (this was 3rd session on low dogwalk)
Charlotte, Blaze and Ripple
Did you change anything? His starting point maybe? And, was he jumping or overstriding?
Made sure I had the starting point exactly as you said and she was definitely jumping, back feet together and high. I finally got 2 good reps at the end. Will see how today goes!
Could it be you simply didn’t do enough running on the flat or very low? How long did you work on flat? If they start to leap like that, it usually means that either they didn’t really get the RUNNING part yet -- or the set up is too difficult for them to figure out the striding. It might help to remind her of it by going to the floor for a couple of sessions and then starting the lowest you can put that DW.
She worked on the flat for a long time. First on two boards side by side and then when that finally worked then the single board. I will go back a board on the floor for a couple of sessions and see if I can get my dogwalk even lower. She was much better today in her two sessions. Still some jumping but also some really nice reps and some others that were good but stride not split as much as I would like.
O.k., good, maybe it was just the change of a set up that threw her off stride. I usually don’t worry about one bad session, but if I get two or three bad ones in a row with no obvious trend towards better ones, then I go back and make it easier.
Thanks. Whilst her two sessions yesterday weren’t perfect they were a lot better than the one I mentioned above. Will see how she goes tomorrow but will lower the dogwalk further too.
Hi,
I’m not convinced Blaze’s success rate is high enough so would love your feedback on this morning’s session. When she is giving me a good hit it is great but often the strides before are feet together and then she splits them for the last stride.
and here is her cavaletti and pivot work video
like Ripple she used to do pivot work on a low balance cushion, she is taking longer to get the hang of the flower pot!
Thanks, Charlotte and Blaze
Hm, yes, you would definitely wish for a higher successful rate as that, but if the trend is good and you are getting more&more of good ones, then you can keep working like that. But maybe try to experiment with her starting point some more… When starting so close, they often don’t yet separate the feet as well. It seemed like a good spot on the last video, but maybe one (or even two?) strides back would be better, so that she has more room to adjust and run more.
Getting there with the tricks, you can make cavaletti easier by not tossing treats that far so that she doesn’t come with so much speed into them at first.
Silvia, any thoughts on Blaze’s session I posted below from yesterday. I just want to know if I keep working on this set up and hope I get the consistent running back or do I change anything? Also posted her cavaletti and pivot work (both getting there but not quite as good as Rip at this stage)
Sorry, can’t comment any faster as I do 🙂 I try to answer everything in 24 hours, but if I am away whole day, it’s not easy…
Hey no problem at all. Thanks for your input.
Charlotte
Thanks for that Silvia, will work on both the dogwalk and the tricks again today and look for a better starting spot for her.
Hi Silvia,
Thanks for the tip with the food throws with the cavaletti, they were much better today and her pivot work is much improved too.
Her running contacts however, I’m not sure. She did do a couple with nice hits but she is running with her back feet together more than split even when she is splitting them on the down plank. She did start to do a couple with a little separation but I’m not convinced. Should I go back to running her on a plank again?
I think a lot of the trouble I have is the short planks here in NZ -- 2.4 metres to 2.7 🙁 I have done 2 side by side with both Rip and Blaze and even tried two together lengthwise.
Where would you suggest I go from here. Keep working on the low dogwalk and reward the better hits or go back to the plank?
Many thanks.
Charlotte
If you’re not sure, then going back is always better. But yes, could be that the short planks are an issue. They really need to shorten their stride a lot to do two hits. The reason why I would like them on full low DW is that they have more room and options there. They need to learn to hit down ramp with hind feet first for 2.7 plank and to do one hit only on 2.4 planks (see Bi’s 3 and 4 stride patterns on DW) -- so teaching them to do 2 hits (what you’re actually teaching them now) is not really what you’re going for… So maybe, you could use two planks (horizontal and down ramp) end to end for flat work, to give them more room to adjust, and then raise them for 15 cm into last 2/3 of DW and then continue like that, adding up ramp once it gets too high to safely jump on. I think it would be more fair to them, one short plank really makes things too difficult for them and actually contra-productive for you.
Hi Silvia,
Well you opened my eyes big time with your last comments about striding and the plank lengths and I think I finally understood what I would be looking for stride pattern wise on our shorter dogwalk planks here in NZ. So I have taken both dogs back to the carpet. For Blaze I did it as I wasn’t happy that she was doing her strides across the dogwalk with her back feet together and the hit rate with split hind legs on the down plank was inconsistent.
Here is her carpet work from today. How long would you do this for and where too next? The carpet is about 3.2 metres long and and maybe 550 wide (a scrap piece I managed to scrounge!). Our dogwalk planks are 2.4 to 2.7 metres here.
I will post Ripples video under her previous comments.
Cool, I would do some more sessions like this and then go to two planks end to end to give her more room to adjust her stride. Make sure you throw in time, looks to me like you were throwing late at tries 2 and 4 and she is looking up at the toy. You want a focus forward, so the toy should be ahead and at eye level.
Hi Silvia,
Been working hard on both girls on the carpet which went well, then put the carpet over the plank -- no issues here either. Then put the two 2.4 metre planks end to end. At first left the carpet on the last 3 metres. For Blaze she transitioned nicely and we have done several sessions of the two planks end to end and also added a tunnel in beforehand.
Some of my throws are not so good as it seems I have damaged my neck and shoulder, however training must go on LOL.
Here are Blaze’s last three sessions. rel="nofollow ugc">
Sounds good! I hope you post a video too!
Crikey I’m going mad. Was so sure I had added the link to Blaze’s video!
Working on Ripple’s at the moment. Will post shortly.
Here is Ripple’s video. She didn’t progress quite as easily as Blaze from the carpet -- sensitive soul!!!
Carpet was awesome, carpet over the 2.4 metre plank awesome. Even added tunnel in beforehand.
Then put two 2.4 planks end to end with carpet over second plank and back to leaping! Spent several days with just working on it -- removed carpet in case she was leaping over the change of surface. Finally 2 days ago she was starting to run and I added in a tunnel 5metres before the planks and bingo we have running back! I only do 6 -- 8 reps in a session with her and that seems to be working. She loves the ball but not insanely obsessed like Blaze so I just do more frequent sessions and fewer reps.
I’ve been struggling with my neck and shoulder so some throws are bad 🙁 Blaze in particular is very much following the ball, I think fading it might be tough for her in particular !!!
Rip has done 3 sessions with the tunnel to the 2 planks really well now whereas Blaze has done a lot more.
Thank you
is Ripple’s video.
It sure looks good now! I think you can raise it some for both. You can slowly start throwing sooner&sooner to then switch to a stationary toy and then eventually to a toy thrown after.
Great job!!! I agree with what you rewarded/jackpotted and definitely love the speed now! Time to raise the two planks some to make 2/3 of DW or, if it’s easier, use the whole thing, just very low.
Thanks Silvia, I am much happier with the speed and the hind leg separation since I went back to the carpet. I’ve also changed my mind set a lot since I started this course. Before I was getting too caught up in the contact and not the running, it was getting frustrated with it and now I’m much more relaxed and enjoying the process.
I will have a play around with the dogwalk and planks this afternoon and see what I can come up with.
Charlotte, Ripple and Blaze
Well I did two sessions with the girls on the low dogwalk (as low as I can get mine).
Here are our efforts for the day. I’m trying really hard to reward running and not worry too much about the contact per se. However am trying to jackpot low hits, reward running (unless really high).
Struggling with my shoulder and neck still so tried to get them into the tunnel asap!
Here is Blaze’s video rel="nofollow ugc">
and Ripple’s rel="nofollow ugc">
That was quite of a change in a set up, so it’s normal their successful rate dropped some. Try some more sessions like that and see the trend. For now, you can slick somewhat higher hits too and you can of course also click front legs, you can also jackpot two front legs. If the successful rate doesn’t go up, you can still go back to two planks and put something underneath first to raise them more gradually. Also on this set up, try to support the down ramp some, it’s too bouncy. If they can stay on DW, it’s o.k. to start them in a tunnel. Still hope your shoulder and neck gets better soon!
That is odd, I definitely put the links for the video in but they didn’t come up.
Blaze -- rel="nofollow ugc">
and Ripple -- rel="nofollow ugc">
3rd time lucky, Ripple
Blaze
Hi Siliva,
I must have misunderstood what you wanted me to do. I had thought you wanted them on a low dogwalk?
Should I go back to the two planks on the ground?
Charlotte
Low DW as soon as possible is definitely a good idea, but if their successful rate doesn’t go up, you can make a transition slower by first using slightly raised 2/3 and then full, but even lower DW (you could use some other objects instead of real legs to make it lower).
Hello everyone and Silvia,
I am also a continuing RC I student. Maia and I have had a few set backs and I am hoping that we can finally get past them and move along and hopefully get to a full height DW by the end of this session.
Silvia, here is our session from today. I’ve been able to set her back over 12 feet, as seen in this video. I have not added anything to the set up, so there still is a straight tunnel at the end of the plank. What do you think? Should I stay at this stage even longer? She seemes a lot more airy today for some reason -- I’m not sure why.
Can you get even more angle with that hill? If so, that would be the best way to continue. If not, I would first try some more things before using an object to raise it again… Things like setting her even further back for example…. Maybe even a wrap again?
No, unfortunately I cannot get more of an angle on that hill, so I will try wraping her and setting her back farther. Thank you!
O.k., try that first then and if it goes well you can keep using a hill, but making it even higher with additional objects.
Hi everybody!
Here is our first training on a dubble (dogwalk) plank we did at our dogschool.
This was the second session. (The first session my card was full so I had to remove some videos first ;))
Here’s what I think:
Good: 1,2,3,9
Less good : 4,6,7
Bad Bad!: 5,8 > No Click
Jonina & Jin
Your dog is so beautiful ! Is she a tricolore chocolate BC? Your friend that gave her birth is a professional breeder?
Actually, both of you are doing really well, congratulations !
Hope I can follow the level of all of you guys…
Thanks Céline, that’s so sweet! Yes she is a chocolate tricolor female, believe me… the inside is even more beautiful! 😉
It was the first litter of her mother but the owners did all the tests there are and they were very well prepared giving the puppies such a great start.
Mayyyyybe once we will have puppies from Jin, because once I really would love to have a puppy from her, she is more than perfect for me! 😀 (Sorry can’t stop bragging about her 😉 )
But ofcourse I can’t keep 5 or 6 or even more puppies so only if there will be people who like to have a puppy from her that I also think will be good enough for a Jin-puppy , mayyyyybe we will have puppies from her 😀 Here is a picture of her parents:
Who knows if I could be interested later on?! Here is my email in case you make this decision one day: celinelescure@yahoo.fr
Training one dog is already such time consuming that it’s hard to make everything fit in a day (work, husband… and we not even have children yet!)!
Celine, do you have Facebook? If you do.. let me know your hind-name or search me: Jonina Boer. 😀
I also really don’t know how people do all this who also have children! I’m always saying I’m the most busy person in the world. 😉
Wow, you’re GREAT in clicking! You’re really clicking at the right time and the right things, very impressive! I see you have no problems seeing what you need to see anymore 🙂 Great job! As the planks are that thick and it can hurt if she steps on the edge, let’s raise them some to soften that edge. I agree with how you rewarded, only that I would call it excellent, o.k. and not so good 🙂
Thank you so much Silvia! That really gives me some confidence. First I have to ask my boyfriend if he can make these 4 planks as 2 planks and then I can raise them some. So great to here you agree with how I rewarded, that makes me feel we are going the right way because I really had doubts about that! I will name it Excellent, Ok and Not so good next time! 😀
Hi there Jonina, Always been a fan of Gin and wow she is doing great with the start of RC. Love the look of her parents and of cause Gin and the fact that they are tested. Can i ask how you start her, ie, from a stay or around something or tunnel etc. cool happy training.
Thanks Alicia, that’s really sweet! I send her into a (almost straight) tunnel first, so I will have time to stand in the right position. Happy training for you too!! 😀 (PS: Are you auditing this class?)
Hi there Jonina,we are participating in this class but at the moment my dog walk is waiting for new rubber mats so cant use it but hopefully up and running again soon. I was using a cone to send around before our break with RC but think the tunnel will be great and it does 2 things at once, build tunnel drive and train RC and way more fun than a cone! Happy training.
hi everyone,
2 days ago i trained the plank, i was thinking the camera was down,, but he taped the first 6 times. i had 2 jackpots 2 good and 2 bad
1,2 good
4,6 jackpot because he had the best speed of those tapes. and best
hind feet position
5,3 bad
tomorrow i’ll start with the carpet,
I can almost run like before I turned my ankle, so i hope benji thinks the same 😉 haha
Very good to jackpot the fastest tries! That should be your major focus at the moment.
Hi Silvia,
You haven’t seen Beatrice for awhile. I think I got over my head with both the foundation and the RC class. But we’ve been working on the DW at half height, doing our curves on exit, working entrances with different obstacles before and different obstacles after and experimenting with other distractions. The distractions in general are what would result in a high hit or a leap. Changes in the set up did not seem to. I’m still struggling with tending to click high hits, but am not rewarding them heavily and I think she is really working out what her task is. I’m posting this now because it is a land mark for us: The first time at full height dog walk. I see her going slower, I’m sure because it is quite new, but she still seems to understand what her job is. Although I click the first rep, I did not reward heavily. I jackpotted all subsequent hits.
Please let me know what you observe about her FIRST FULL HEIGHT DOGWALK! My plan is to continue to work this, with curving exits until my proportion of correct hits is 100% and then start teaching the turns.
I’m glad to be continuing in your course.
Heidi
Beatrice is FABULOUS!!! I love watching her work!
Amy and Little Spur
Thank you Amy, I think she is FABULOUS, too.
Great job!!! 100% of hits for a first time on full DW sounds pretty good 🙂 Looks like you’re pretty much there! Keep working on curves and if possible, try her over some other DWs in other environments too so that she can see it’s the same thing -- not an issue at all for some dogs, but can be hard for others.
Thanks, Silvia. You are always positive and encouraging and I am always worrying that something isn’t quite right. So I will ask you, is her speed and striding what I would hope for and expect?
We will begin the tour of dogwalks. Thank fully I have many friends with dogwalks.
Heidi
Sounds cool! ” The tour of dogwalks” 😀 What a beautiful photo of Beatrice!
Yeap, we are there with Le too, she is only used to my rubber DW and is not so confident on wooden ones, so we’re meeting two new wooden DWs today 🙂
I’m so glad to see how nice (and huge!!) will be my little Karmen later on!
Céline
Yeap, looks great to me! For her size, 4 stride DW is about right -- you don’t want 3 strides, believe me 🙂 I think with more confidence, she will extend even more at the horizontal plank and get even deeper in the contact -- but don’t push it as you definitely don’t want to push her in 3 strides -- 4 is definitely a keeper!
Oh, I’m glad you told me not to push it. I’m always pushing everything. I don’t want to struggle with 3 strides.
Hello Silvia and Classmates.
I posted this on the first page but then soon realized that I needed to put on the lesson page:-) Between figuring out how to clip movies and save in slow motion I am learning much more than how to teach Liberty running contacts:-)
I feel as if we are way behind everyone else with our training, but Liberty and I are going to take our time. Right now she is learning to find chasing after a toy more rewarding than the manners minder. We have made much progress over the last week on this exercise. I am including 3 videos of her running across the backyard. One time she is actually going after her toy!!
My next project is to figure out how to combine clips so I don’t have to post so many videos. Maybe by the weekend I will have that acoomplished! HA HA!
So my question is at what point can I put her back on the planks and start throwing the toy? Is she ready to progress to this point now or should I continue with just throwing the toy and having her chase it to get her to full speed?
Also, about the toy throwing…when I throw the toy, ideally I want it out in front of her at eye level correct??? I am also going to have to become a better toy tosser as well I am afraid. I have noticed that some of my throws to get her running across the yard are really bad! Doubt I will have that fixed by the weekend though:-)
Melanie & Liberty
I replied there already, so try to find my answer there. And yes, you want to throw soon enough she can see the toy ahead of her all the time.
Hi Silvia:
As you know, we’re working to get some good hind feet hits and eliminate the “overreaching”. I’m getting very good at withholding reward for the overreaches and with a set-up I was using a few days ago, was getting better and better 4-stride hits with front feet, but no hind feet hits. That set-up had Tai running into a curved tunnel before the dogwalk. He exited the tunnel ~20 feet before the dogwalk so he had great speed. So, as I withheld reward for the over-reaches, his “solution” was to just extend more to get FF in the zone. I rewarded but didn’t jackpot.
So…I figured if I moved the tunnel a little closer, I’d take off a little of the speed, while still being realistic, and force 4.5 strides. Here is a video that shows the first session with that set-up. I am getting some hind feet hits -- they aren’t perfect but it seems like we’re trending in the right direction. Can you confirm that you would reward these? I also showed some examples of hits that I’m NOT rewarding.
Thanks -- we’re off for a combined camping and trial weekend (my older dog, Breeze is trialing, not Tai!). Be back next week.
Anne & Tai
Yeap, great idea, keep working like this until he gets the idea.