O.k., time for your first homework!
1. find a way to make your dog run as fast as he can, tape him from the side and study his striding in slow motion or even frame by frame: how far apart his hind feet are, how far forward hind feet reach over front feet, how long and high the stride is, how his back looks like and where his head is: many people think you want low head for running contacts, but in fact, you want the head look exactly the same as when running full speed in the fields 🙂
2. have a dog run over the plank, tape him from the side and compare it with the video above - tape it at the height you're currently at. If you're just starting, restrain the dog before your plank, carpet or whatever you're using, throw a toy and release. Slowly bring the dog further away from the plank to really have them come to the plank with full speed. Mark anything that looks like running in the fields from the first video, jackpot when feet are hitting at the end of a plank/carpet (where the contact will be), but reward anything that is running. Don't forget to click it or at least mark it with your voice! I prefer clicking, but you can also first use a voice and start clicking later, when you know your dog's stride better and can predict it better.
This is a good check-up for those who are already running their dogs on a raised plank and a good stride-study that will help you see and mark the correct striding better for those just starting. Once you see your dog is running nicely, with an even stride, hind feet separation and hind feet reaching further from front feet, you can put a brick or something under one end of the plank and have them run over slightly raised plank - I'll tell you when you're ready based on the videos you'll send.
And yes, we're for now throwing a toy in advance, letting the dog chase it, in order to get full speed. So yes, the dog is rewarded every time with a ball - so make sure that you really make the best tries even more special, use excitement in your voice, a play of tug on his favourite toy or food if that's his real preference - in short: make a party about the really good ones and don't worry about not so good ones - just throw that ball again! 🙂
3. to make it easier for the dog to understand what you're clicking for on that plank, we'll be teaching some tricks that are important to help them understand how to use their feet and that you might be clicking them for using them. The two things you will try this time is cavaletti work - walking the dog over drawers or boxes on the floor - and teaching the dog to step with front feet on an object and clicking for any movements of hind feet: the final goal is a full circle in both directions, but first click even for just a weight shift and then go from there.
Post a video with all 3 assignments, first two in slow motion please!!! - But PLEASE cut out all the parts where I can't see the dog: because seeing just the plank, and that is slow motion, is absolutely no fun - and you can't imagine how many planks in slow motion I saw by now!
Also, read all the comments and see as many videos as possible, you can learn A LOT through videos and comments of others, that's why we do it in a class form in a first place!
Two pictures showing what I mean by hind feet reach: hind feet must land further ahead from where front feet were:
Two pictures showing what I mean by hind feet separation: hind feet must be hitting two different spots as far apart as possible (vs. staying parallel, hitting the same spot).
To take the explanation of hind feet separation and reach forward even further, here is a discussion we had with a first class on it, this is my comment to those two videos:
Experimenting with a full low dogwalk
Experimenting with throwing his toy
My comment: he doesn’t run fast enough 
– That’s my answer to 90% of problems with running contacts, so you will probably hear that a lot in next few months Any BC, running full speed, is deep down the contact if doing two strides on a dog-walk ramp, period. Even my PyrShep who is 37cm (14.5″) does the down ramp in two hits and I even know a Papillon that is trying to, despite we would prefer him to do 3 hits Meaning that if a BC does 2 hits and is too high, he is not running enough. That’s some general info for everybody, I’m just using your videos to discuss this topic as they show some very nice tries and some “not running enough” tries.
On most tries, you can see his hind feet come just shortly more forward from where the front feet where. Normally, when the dog runs full speed, hind feet will land significantly further ahead from where front feet were – just like you can see in “experimenting with the toy” video at 1:16, 2:16 and 2:27 tries for example – those were very nice!!!
The faster the dog is moving, the further ahead from front feet hind feet will be landing and as a consequence, you will have MUCH bigger length covered as if hind feet hit where front feet were – meaning that if Bi’s front feet are above the contact, her first hind foot will be in the middle of the contact and the second one will be right at it’s bottom. - While if the dog’s hind feet only come to where front feet were, he is missing the contact in this situation - instead of getting a perfect one
That’s exactly why I always get suspicious when I hear people saying their dog is hitting with 4 feet. With a BC size dog, running full speed with good hind feet separation, it’s pretty much impossible to fit all 4 feet in. 3 is possible, but if they can fit all 4 feet in that small area, they don’t cover enough of an area and when they will be higher, all 4 feet will be out of the contact. Bi on the other hand is a typical example of the dog covering LOTS of an area, meaning that even if her front feet are landing in the middle of the down ramp (yeah, she desperately wants to do it in one hit), the second hind foot will be in the contact, as you can see in this video:
Complicated? Don't worry, it gets easier when you start to see the dog's stride 🙂
Hello Silvia and Classmates.
yesterday we had a second session with the clicker ( my first time that i do it with a clicker ) so i make some faults.
Benji was verry clever and knows the box.
who have some tips for the first part of the movie… or i need to wait and let him think ?
Yeap, wait and let him think, it’s the only way he will really be thinking about the use of legs. He looks really motivated and active though, so I think it won’t take too long, despite I must say that’s not the easiest trick to start shaping with…
Hi Silvia,
I’m verry happy today, Today there was a time when Benji thought hey! when i walk with my hindfeets from side to side I get a lot more cookies.
this I have only recently done to positively conclude … I think we still need a few days before he completely turns around.
Tomorrow I have a 3rd degree agility competition and hopefully he has more speed, but he listens to touch it yet (2on2off) because he now always run on a plank/carpet
Cool, I knew he will get the hind feet movement very fast, he was offering you so much already on a first session! Good luck with your competition! I’m sure running on a flat plank won’t affect your 2on2off in a trial at all.
Hi everyone! Here is my first video. First is an improvised cavaletti as I didn’t have drawers or boxes. Still working on the other trick. Next is free running and lastly our first session on the plank. I found out pretty quickly that I am terrible at throwing the toy. 🙂 I had another go without video where I was trying to throw before releasing Gem but that was awful. So in these ones I am throwing the toy just after I release her. Hopefully that is ok.
I am also a bit unsure as to what I should be focussing on for now. Should it be just fast running or should I be trying to mark the times she has a good hit in the end position? Finding it hard to co-ordinate everything. lol
Also you can’t see in the video but I am still starting her pretty close. When should I be moving her back?
Hope the video link works. 🙂
nice video,
for the cavaleti you can also use a ladder.
it works also good !!
I would prefer an earlier throw as she looks somewhat airy when the ball is above her -- it’s important the ball is in front. As I see you have agility obstacles available, how about starting her with a send to a tunnel and throwing when she is in the tunnel -- one thing less to coordinate then 🙂
Your major focus for now should be that she is running the same way as on the grass, low and evenly -- so NOT like in 3 -- also 7 is somewhat airy. 8 is the best as the toy is thrown in time, so she is not airy and in full extension. Once you have that (I think throwing the toy early will fix it), you can start watching for feet placement too and jackpot the best hits, but anything that is running vs. leaping or “air” is o.k. for now.
Very clever improvisation with the cavaletti!
running on grass and carpet
That was very nice: fast, low and efficient, no “poodle air” 🙂 I hope you are marking those nice hits at the end of the carpet?
She is a fast learner! 🙂
Huh, she sure is more airy on the planks… Is the surface o.k., not slippery and all? Also, looks like as she is starting very close to the planks, maybe that adds to the air… Try starting her further and I think I would also use a carpet over the planks for now, she was definitely running lower before!
Yes I agree, the plank was a little bouncy and slippery and she was not running as low. Should I even bother with the planks? Is it better to do the carpet by itself (to get the best running right now) or advance to the plank (with the carpet over the planks?) I am not sure what the progression is for the beginner dog and when to advance. Thanks.
Well, you first want to do 5 to 10 successful sessions of nice, low running on a carpet and then go to the plank for a session or two so that you can then add some height next.
Hi Silvia!
When working on turns, should I swap between the turns and totally straight exits, or is it OK to instead do curves after doing some turns, or is that too confusing? We are still working on the curves because I just haven’t had much time, so I have the tunnel after DW just slightly off to the side and am slowly moving it further and further. He is doing very well, but occasionally has very high hits on the curves, which I then re-do. As you saw he also has pretty high hits on the turns, although all four feet are in as he collects for the turn. Or should I stop working on curves and only work on turns and straight exits? I can work curves at a different session, if you think that is best.
Thanks, Amy and Little Spur
**We did decide to do the USDAA Nationals in October. I think he is ready.
Hi Amy,
I’m not nearly as far as you are, but I try to read and watch the video’s from everybody to learn already. My english is not so good so there is something I didn’t understand…: What’s the different between ” curves” and ” turns” ? Will you please explain?
Jonina
Hi Jonina 🙂
My understanding of the difference between a curve and a turn is that the dog is still able to do the d/walk in extension vs having to collect on the down ramp 🙂
Hope that helps!
Megan
Hi Jonina, I started with Silvia over the winter and did the first RC class, so yes we are advanced and carried over from that class trying to tighten up and complete our turns and curves training. 😀 Curves are like Megan said…….basically extention off the DW, but the jump or tunnel after is moved a bit to the side so the dog has to curve to one side or the other off the end. It challenges them a little with their understanding. Turns are tight 180’s off the end of the down ramp where the dog must collect.
Hi Silvia 🙂
Like Amy I also have a question regarding switching from turns to straight/curved exits. Liryk’s turns seem to be coming along nicely, BUT she’s now really struggling to extend on straight/curved exits. I’ve tried to begin with her favourite set up (just before the beginning of the down ramp) which works really well, but it doesn’t seem to be transferring to the whole d/w.
The other problem I’m having, is that she is refusing rewards for high hits. When the high hits began, I decided to try and reward everything to build her confidence up, but somehow she knows when it’s not “deep” I’m obviously not making as big a fuss as when she is and she’ll try to run past me to try again, refusing treats, and even her favourite toys. The problem with this is that generally (at the moment) the next try is also high, which repeats the cycle of her not wanting the reward and in turn begins to knock her confidence.
Should I stop with turns at the minute to get her straight d/w back? or just not train turns and straight exists in the same day?
Thanks!!
Megan
To avoid her confidence going down, you can try tunnel to tunnel set up, just run and only stop to jackpot the best hits. And yes, maybe stop with turns for a while and then introduce them again, in separate training sessions.
Okay thanks Silvia!!!
Megan and Liryk
Cool, have fun at Nationals!!! If he is pretty good with curves, you can do them in between when working on turns. If not, I would prefer straight as you don’t want too many failures, especially as turns as such can affect his confidence. Meaning that I would do some slight curves that don’t affect his performance too much, but would only add difficulties so gradually that you are not getting too many high hits.
OK, thanks. I may have pushed him some and will stop with the curves in training for now. Last night at class he had some near misses on straight exits and we haven’t had that happen in months. :O He was FLYING and trying those two hit strides, which are hard for him.
Also, I am having trouble getting him deeper in the turns. Is it wrong to move the stick a little farther out that way forcing him to extend to wrap the stick and perhaps get deeper? I think what is happening is he is launching from the top of the contact to wrap the stick (which I have down to a very thin stick about 10″ tall) and I have nothing to jackpot because that’s all he wants to do.
And you can’t get him deeper even with a very low plank? If so, then yes, move the stick, you do want him deeper.
Well, you saw the low plank and he was still pretty high. Even higher on full DW. I’ll try moving the stick and see what happens. Thanks!! Amy
I was thinking even lower. With Bu, I had to go VERY low to get the correct foot placement (she would jump the whole contact to land nicely next to the pole with front feet in the right direction 🙂 ) -- once we finally got it, it was easy to transfer it to full height though.
Ahhh, OK, I’ll try that and see if I can get some better understanding. Last night at class I tried to replicate his “misses” on the full DW and he just kept getting deeper and deeper. 😀 Go figure? He’s a smart little guy! 😀
Why can’t I post anything here? :´(
And why did that work? Sorry.
Ok. New try. This is Epic, 12 months, running on the ground and running on a plank. I’m doing the class with him. He looks nice on a flat plank, I think.
I also included a short clip of Squid, 2,5 years old, from this spring (she has puppies now). Her running contacts have never been reliable because of this weird thing she does. Everything looks nice except she forces her hind feet to hit the ground after the contact instead of just pushing off the yellow with her hind feet. I find it really weird. She doesn’t always do it and it get’s a bit better if I don’t reward it. It’s worse if she has to think about something after the contact (like tight turn on the next jump). Ideas?
Would recommend that you turn off the sound for this video ^
Squid, meet Tai, Bender and Spy -- we had this same problem with those dogs from 1st RC class. It was easy to get rid of it with Spy and Bender as we spotted it in time and Tai is still “overreaching” as I call it -- see Anne’s video. I actually can see some of it with Epic, too. If you see his first try on a video, his hind foot comes half of the length of the contact after front foot -- that would be about normal for a BC. Now compare this to his second and third try: his hind foot hits full length of a contact after front foot in those two tries. Last one is more “normal” again and he never reaches so far with other strides on the plank -- just the last one.
I’m not sure why this happens, I saw it only once before (with one of the people who sometimes trains here) and I had a theory it happens when the dog thinks too much about front feet vs. hind feet (when they were jackpotted for front feet hits more as hind feet hits), but then Bender doesn’t fit in this description -- with him, it happened when he flew the apex too much and from some strange reason, shortened the second stride too much, hitting just above or very high on the contact with front feet (instead of in the contact) and then momentum took his hind feet too far. Once he learned to do 1.5 stride on a down ramp (no flying over apex, hind feet hit the down ramp first), the problem went away. Do you have a video of the whole DW from Squid (slow motion)?
The problem with overreach is that it’s much harder to see it in real speed as leaps and I think people often reward or even jackpot it and make it even worse. So yes, definitely don’t reward the overreach even when the contact hit was nice (as with Epic’s second and third try in the video). The safest is to go for hind feet hits. Try to vary Epic’s starting point some to see what gives you hind feet hits and then stick with it for a while. I would do the same with Squid: plank on the floor, going preferably for hind feet hits and trying to not reward overreach. For turns, you still want front feet, but I would insist on lower front feet for turns.
MMMMM!!!!!! i’m not happy !!!
I’m not happy!, Today at 3 pm, I sprained my ankle ….
I can not run. On the training (which I have given instructions) I have tried with Benji, and encourage walking away ….. he had the drive but missed a lot the”end”this because I can not do the same as this morning ..
I am quite frustrated. because I love what I want, and I already see a change in speed … Positive is that I now have more time for tricks.
@ Silvia, Benji is still missed by me the last contact area,
Should I stop now while the plate? and perhaps only do carpets (read somewhere that we have not to worry about the contact area.) so I hope I’ll get a good feeling .. and that there are things that can so we do not lag behind.
Sorry to hear that! 🙁 Hope you will get better soon!!!
Yes, a narrow plank is not the best idea for now. Carpet or wide plank would be better, getting him to really RUN and focusing on form of running, not a contact for now. You can jackpot good hits, but anything that is running is o.k. for now. Hope your ankle is o.k. soon!
So here is my homework lesson 1:
It is hard to make Viva run full speed without any obstacles. I figured out it´s the best way to call her to me from a down or send her around something and call her back. The garden is to small and I have to do it somewhere on a walk and tape it. So only two tries of it on the video.
The running DW tries look much better 🙂 The faster she runs the better the contacts are. I do like most the tries when one front feet reaches the beginning of the contact and the hindfeet fit one in the middle and one in last third.
In the cavaletti and hindfeet video I know it´s not the right trick with the pot 😉 In the next days I will try to teach her putting front feet on and circling with hindfeet!
And we go on with the bring it back and get a treat game. She´s doing it, but not very enthusiastic and not really fast. So not ready for using in training. I thought over taking a Kong Wubba instead of a ball. I think she likes it more. Maybe I can later switch to a ball, when she knows the game better and loves it more?!
oewww… i love your back feed work!!!! so nice !!
Thank you 🙂 When she was a puppy it took long to teach her to touch something with hindfeet. But from the moment she understood she loved it and is now always offering it 😉
hehe,
it is verry diffecult, Benji and i had a long way to go he circels around the box
Very cool! Seems like she knows everything already 🙂 Great job and really cool dog!
Thanks! Oh no, there is still so much to learn 🙂 Today I wanted to start the trick “put the front feet on the pot and circle with hind feet”, but she offered me four on the pot and that was so nice, that I clicked it 😉
We will have to learn the other trick too, cause I want to train her heeling your way 🙂
Yeap, she really runs faster over DW as on flat 🙂 La is the same, she only runs fast in agility 🙂 Viva has really nice DW striding (the symmetrical 5 strides 🙂 ) -- looks very reliable. You can of course use Wubba instead of the ball, it flies good enough. Another idea -- you can try it while working on her toy drive, would be to have food bowl after a straight tunnel first, then start to curve the tunnel some and then switch to reward by food from your hand, but always after the tunnel. Once she starts to pull nicely towards the tunnel, you could put one jump in between and then more&more. You can also work on sends to tunnel separately from DW, just to teach her that running ahead of you is just as much fun as running with you.
Yes, she is able to do it really nice 🙂 But I was not able to fix it. Unfortunately her DW is only reliable when there is food or I´m ahead of her. Sometimes she´s doing great without both, but most time not.
I will pick up your idea and try it! Sounds good to me 🙂 For this I will have to work on sends to tunnel more than I did before 😉 She´s doing it great when I send her in our rc-training over some jumps to the tunnel and she knows DW is the next. Thank you!
Here you can see, how we train the DW at home. I always do some obstacles before the DW to get her run full speed. Normally some jumps or weaves, then tunnel and then DW with one jump. At the end the food (only one bit) and when the contact was nice, so that I clicked, she is getting more food from my hand. But she needs to have that one bit, if not she begins to slow down or to jump. Hope to get away from it with your help 🙂
Sometimes I´m not sure if she is really thinking about, what she is doing there 😉 I feel, when she is not thinking and only running full speed, she´s doing the best contacts 😉
What a great dog Nadia! Is Viva a pyr.shep ?
Thank you! Yes, she is! Both of it 😉
Unfortunately she is not really the same in competition, but it´s getting better 🙂
Looks good, we just need the same performance with you behind now and no bowl now 🙂 Happy training!
Yes, that would be great:-) Today we go for training at our club. There we do have a lot more space and tunnels, so I can test the thing with straight tunnel behind the DW and then the bowl.
Yesterday I tried the DW without bowl, throwing wubba instead and not running in front of her. All tries were good 🙂 Not so perfect, likes the tries with food bowl, but really good. I think it´s not bad for the start 🙂
Thanks! For sure, we do have a lot of fun with our training 🙂
That’s definitely a great start!!! I’m sure she’ll soon get it that wubba is as good or even better as a bowl!
Hello
I am Gitte from Denmark, and I am running with a 2 year old tervueren Andy. Our problem is very high hits on the contacts -- he usually only get one hind leg on the contacts:-(
I’ve got some problems with editing the videos, so we’ll see if it works now. I’ve taped running on the ground and some runnings on full DW. rel="nofollow ugc">
What a cool dog! Looks like he is going for 3 strides, but then he misses the up contact and barely, if at all, gets to the down contact… Do you do anything about up contacts? I think you’ll need to address those and maybe, if he is hitting up contact first, not above it, he can fit in 4 strides -- that would take him deep in the contact. Can you send some more slow motion videos of entire DW, with up contacts done?