School time for our puppies! Here is your first to-do list. The first task might sound a little silly for those with adult dogs, but in fact, it's never silly to make a recall even better!
1. call your dog at least 10 times a day to do something fun together: to play, to go out, to get a treat, something to chew on or a new exciting toy
2. put a plate (or another object, but I like to start with a plate as puppies can't chew on those too easily) on a floor and shape a puppy to touch it with a front paw: you can first click for head movement in the right direction, then one/two/three steps, then stepping over it or close to it and finally for stepping on it
3. sit on a floor and put a fist full of treats or dog's favourite toy right in front of their nose, wait till they stop sniffing and click for anything they try other than getting directly to the food/toy or staring at it. It's very important the dog understands staring at food/toy doesn't get him anywhere as it will later on allow you to work with food/toys in your hand without distracting the dog's focus from the job at hand.
4. find a box or a drawer that is as long as your dog and not too high and shape a dog to put 1-2-3-4 legs into it. Then try with smaller&smaller objects, final goal is the dog can stand in a small bowl.
5. observe your puppy and see if he sometimes stretches his legs out when in down position, puppies often do that when relaxed or playing. Name it (I call it "frog":) and reward. It's a nice stretching exercise and very easy to get it on cue if the dog does it naturally (some dogs do it as adults too, but mine didn't and it was much harder to train it as with puppy Le who was doing that naturally). If not, put a dog in a down position and reward from the floor and so far ahead that the dog needs to stretch out to get it - but not so far that he would crawl ahead. Watch the hind legs and click for moving them back OR out, but NOT for crawling step forward.
Looking forward to see your videos!
OK, here goes!
Dynamite showing #3, 4 and 5.
#3 going amazingly- but clashing with #5 (see below)!
My questions/spots needing feedback:
#4- When we moved to the red box she decided she could sit on the edge or in the box. Any issue there? Should she be standing or does it not matter?
#5-she does offer ‘frog’ naturally. (I’ve called it stretch since the day I brought her home.) She was easy to lure/reward too and was catching on, but now that we have been doing #3 a lot more (focus on me not food) she won’t lure if there is food involved. She thinks I want her to avoid food completely if she is laying down so won’t follow my hands with cookies in them (for example if trying to have her go under my legs will stare at me instead of follow the food). OR she will offer another trick (example in the video- ‘pink belly’). Ideas? If I wait for it to occur naturally… this will take some time!
(Bonus round of my other girl trying what might be precursor to an eventual headstand. Any ideas on the next step? At the very least… she is cute! 🙂 )
Great focus -- awesome ‘pink belly” ! I enjoyed Shiver’s bonus round which may help me with my Frog. You have the same issue as me when working with one dog, the other is rebelling “PICK ME -- IT’S MY TURN!!” Such enthusiasm is wonderful!
Very cute! You can let her sit in the box, once it gets smaller, that won’t be possible anyway and will go away on its own. For the frog, I don’t see the problem either, you are getting some really nice frogs, simply reward those. If you want to speed it up, you can use a nose touch to your empty hand instead of a lure. If she doesn’t know it yet -- teach her 🙂 If the dog refuses to be lured, it’s still important he knows to follow your hand and read hand signals, so I would definitely teach that too. We will address the headstand too, don’t worry. You need both feet on, so I actually start it from normal 2on2off position.
Looks great Shenna! Love seeing Dynamite working, she is very keen. Great understanding of leaving the food, even when you accidentally drop it!
For Shiver’s handstand, try targetting something leaning agains a wall on a 45 degree angle, and click for hind foot targetting (which she already knows!) and slowly decrease the angle until the object is vertical. I never thought I’d be able to teach a cool trick like that, but Sync surprised me and has picked it up! We can already get both feet up on a vertical surface. I think it is in the longer video I had posted on Facebook.
The only problem with this method is that most dog learn to climb -- one leg first, second one after the first one already has a support -- and then it’s hard to fade the wall. It’s important they learn to push up on an object with both hind legs at pretty much the same time, that’s why I prefer 2on2off to higher&higher objects (but never at the angle) -- the best are actually “empty” objects (chairs, tables…) that don’t allow climbing.
This is Boom putting his feet on a flat disc made out of the rubber skin material that rubber contacts have. I couldn’t use a plate because he gets food on a plate and wants to put his nose on it not his foot.
It says the video is private?
Sorry, I really am just learning this YouTube stuff. I have made my videos Public so now everyone should be able to see them.
This is a real learning experience for me about video, YouTube, and uploading both. Please bear with me.
Dianne, we can´t see the video!
Sure, it doesn’t matter which object you use, disc is perfectly o.k. I can’t see your video, though, it says it’s private…
The plate trick is going well! Maybe include some playing in between, to keep him more interested? A tip for treats throwing: toss it after the click, so he will know it’s coming and look for it better 🙂
Hi,
Ok, so we’ve been busy working on the lessons from Lesson 1.
1. Recalls -- I do these all the time, all over. You can never have enough practice with these 🙂
2. She will put two paws on an object, no problem. She does perch work, so she starts to move around and around.
3. This one was no problem because I always train with treats on the floor anyway. They know to leave them alone and that ‘working’ will get them their treat.
4. We worked on this and tonight I was able to get Maia to put all four paws into a sandwitch plastic container. I have it on video, but it is 7 minutes long (and for some reason I am unable to upload an edited movie to YouTube right now so I will spare everyone the 7 minutes 😀 )
5. Well, a small progress today. Because I do not lure, I’ve had trouble thinking of a way to get her to do the froggy. I tried the pillows, did not work. She would stand on them, nose them, push them, paw at them etc.
I tried capturing her laying on her side and stretching, but each time I clicked, she would stand up and look at me like ‘I’m ready to work, what do you want?’ and then it would take her over 1/2 hr to lay down again if I ignored her. So that did not go well.
FINALLY, however, I think I may have found the solution, and after reading some of the comments above, it seems someone else is doing it this way too. I am shaping her to go under my leg. So first, I get her to go under one leg, then I slowly lower the leg, so she has to be on her belly to get under. Then, I have her go under two legs -- making her stretch a little more. I think this may work, but I am worried that I will shape her crawling forward instead of the froggy! Here is the video of our first session this way…any suggestions? I will try hard to only click for the legs going into froggy and not crawling… 😉
Step 1:
Step 2:
It might be too much, but I wonder if you could combine this method with the pillows. As she crawls under your legs and over the pillows, the pillows would encourage extension of her back legs. Maybe?
I lowered my legs so that Carlos had to really squeeze hinself under them in order to get the lure (I am still luring him with this excercise).
First I clicked any crawling, then started to click only when the back legs were stretched. And today he stayed in a stretched position, so I slowly removed my leg from above him, while rapidly clicking & treating the same time.
I´m beginning to see now that getting the frog is not as hopless as I thougt initially. 🙂
Maia is very creative in trying figure out what you want! You may want to try repetitive clicking when she’s stretching her legs out?
Very good! 🙂
Sounds great! For the frog, I don’t see much of what you’re clicking as she is doing it another direction… If you see some stretches, that’s a good beginning. But yes, it does look more like teaching crawling as the frog… You could indeed try the combination with pillows.
Still don’t have Frog dog. I’m trying to click some movement, but I’m getting too much forward push.
Also, getting four paws in a basket, but it’s not full of excitement. So I’m going to work on getting it smaller and excited.
But I need frog help.
Thanks
To me, that looks like a great beginning of the frog! Crawling forward is perfectly o.k. as long as the hind legs are stretching back. Keep clicking for those and you’ll have a full frog in no time.
Hm, he does seem a little bit cautions with this box… Did you try with lower sides, maybe he would like that better? He seems to understand the exercise well, but is really cautions when stepping over the sides, not sure why… Did it move on him before? If so, maybe you could hold it to fix it better…
Ok, I’ll try a new box and keep going with frog dog.
Oh, I forgot to mention that Kinetic is a girl. From her name that’s not obvious….sorry.
Frog tip --
I had been trying to catch this movement or induce it since we got the exercise. Nothing. My dog almost never does this on his own (unlike my puppy who seems to have it as a default position). I tried all the tips here -- still nothing. On the way to frog I took the time to capture the bows my dog was offering, which while unrelated, lead to the frog solution.
After the bows were done, I needed to suggest that the answer was now something else. So I put my dog in down postion, and placed my hand on his back next to his tail. I did NOT push down, just sat my hand there lightly. And what do you know -- instant frog legs 🙂 Seems to work if you are luring forward (faster), and also if you just wait. I’ll put a video when I can. It might have also helped that we did this on the bed -- a place where he is used to wiggling around a alot during cuddles ;), unlike on the floor.
For my dog, it always takes ages for him to offer back leg things, and to connect anything to do with back legs with rewards. Now we have a few back leg things it goes faster, but e.g., handstand took several month of here and there of work to get.
Heehee, YES, I tried that, too! I just placed my hand gently on their back and next thing I know the leg stretched out!!!! 😀
VERY interesting! It doesn’t work that way with my dogs… Anybody else who tried?
Here’s the video (frog at the end). Of course it is a long way from frog on command, but at least we get the position. The video angle is not the best but you get the point. This is a noisy video because Miss broken leg is jealous in the background, and trying to remind me this was meant to be HER COURSE
Wow, that’s a very small bowl already! And yes, definitely getting there with the frog! Great job! I hope Sen can join in soon too!
I might try the hand touch with Dragon, too. I prefer not to use too much physical help usually but maybe switching between using the pillow and the hand touch will help him figure it out.
Yes I ususully try to do free-shaping, but with my dog it almost always is faster for harder things to use an aid of sorts (hand, pillow). E.g., I tried for ages to get my dog to touch my hand with alternate back legs. Finally I decided to place his paw on my hand and click -- then he got it straight away. I think they retain the lesson best with free-shaping, but there is nothing wrong with demonstation if they are clearly confused, providing you only use it for as long as it takes to get the first free offer of the same thing.
Interesting. My dogs just get terribly confused and surprised by any kind of modeling, I doubt they would EVER learn it that way. But I guess it’s a question of what the dog is used to…
The hand on the back did not work for my dog-he NEVER offers frog legs, but he is an older puppy (18 mos.) But I sure see the value in that stretch so I will keep trying. Pillows helped to get it a little-after many pounces on the pillows which were so cute I almost forgot my real goal. We’re having a lot of fun regardless!!
That’s the important part! I’m sure you’ll get that frog, but yes, it is a funny trick to teach. When I tried teaching it to Bu she was 2 and it took weeks if not months, even though she is very flexible dog who stretches beautifully over the jumps. La is not nearly as flexible and she was 7 years when I first tried it and she never did it on her own before (only as a little puppy) -- and we had it in one session…
Hello,
I would like some box tips from Silvia and others on what to click when the box gets smaller where the dog needs to pull in the back legs. Wylie seems to be getting frustrated with me because he was getting reward more and now isn’t. He is still offering but not much with the back legs in the box. I am also going to try a plastic container tonight with lower sides. My dog is long with short legs -- Norfolk Terrier. thanks for the ideas!
Video would help… But yes, going back to somewhat bigger box usually helps. When you start with a smaller one again, it’s the easiest if you put it in an old object that the dogs knows already and of course, lower the criteria and reward any tries of nearing or heaving hind legs.
Thanks Silvia! Putting the smaller container inside the bigger one is working great. I also had to cut the sides of my box down but it was worth it. I will post another video soon to see what you think. The extra clicker training for this lesson is already making our good relationship even better, he is giving me more attention even outside the training sessions.
Great! That’s what it’s all about, afterall!
Here’s Echo on the box, the foot target, and the Zen exercise.
Great job! Still lots of room to make that box smaller 🙂 but things look to go in the right direction with all the tricks in the video. Did you started with the frog yet?
Started frog last night. Will post video when back at home. Yeah, I’ve got scrounge my cabinets and closets for other boxes.
Q-John I have a question: If we train our dogs to not to pay any attention too food on the floor #3 in lesson. Will it be confusing to the dog if we throw food on the floor to get the dog to go out of the box?
When I’m tossing them a treat to get them out of the position, I always say “go” to release them from a position and click it (for whatever they’re doing and I’m planning to reward -- in this case for leaving the box on a release word) so they know this treat is already earned and then can go get it. If I throw it without the release word, they know to ignore it until I say “go” -- that’s a little advanced for now, for now you always say “go” together with a toss -- but we will get there and split the two. When I’m clicking for action, I’m not adding “go” as they’re not supposed to hold the position in a first place, but they know they can go get the treat because the click told them they earned it already. Without the click, “go” or “get it”, they know to leave it alone as they didn’t earn it yet.