O.k., things are getting somewhat more complicated now! Now that you mastered the serpentine, we'll look into other options with that set up too, but first, let's train some of
1. out/around/back
Push the dog on the other side of the jump by stepping with your left foot if the dog is on your left side towards the left wing/stanchion (and the opposite), saying your verbal and rewarding after he takes the jump. Every next try, help somewhat less on the take off side and move more on the landing side - see the video. This is again the question of commitment: the dog should understand to take the jump you showed even if you are already moving away already (helps in serpentines too!)
2. serpentine vs. threadle vs. pushes
Now let's try two pushes in a row on serpentine setting. If that goes well, you can try a threadle too, using your collection body language, together with cik/cap before the dog takes the jump and then "come" as soon as his front feet hit the ground - rewarding from your hand for coming to you. Once that goes well, try two in a row: when the dog comes to hand, don't reward but cue cik/cap for the next jump and then reward the "come".
Once you can do two pushes or threadles in a row, try three. And if you manage to do three, you can even try four! It's harder for every next jump, so make sure you progress slowly so that the dog is mostly successful. Start with a wrap to tunnel to have good speed. Mix in some serpentines too to keep them attentive to your body language and make sure, you train them both ways, so that the dog exits the tunnel on your side of the jump sometimes and sometimes on the other. The pushes and the threadles, sometimes do with the dog on the left, sometimes on the right.
Don't worry to master it in 2 weeks, it takes more than that, but do try to do some of this.
3. sequence: a little more complicated this time, so again, run it in parts and definitely walk it several times first, rehearsing your body language AND when to say what! - It gets complicated now as it includes everything we learned so far (wraps, extension, sends, serpentines, out/back/push).
Let's start with a wrap to the tunnel, then blind or front cross when the dog is in a tunnel, show 3 (you can call it "right" if the dogs knows directionals), cue collection (front cross) and use "cap" for 4, then 5 is "cik", send to tunnel and cue extension for 7 (meaning: RUN!), push for 8 (say "out/back/push"), RUN for 9, wrap 10, push/out/back for 12 and handle 13 as a straight line (it's a serpentine from 12 to 13). Have fun!
And here is my video of the sequence without 10 and 11, I completely forgot that part! Looks like I should be printing the courses out too! But I guess it can help some anyway, I also included serpentine, threadle and pushes, I hope I got that part right! 🙂
Just a quick question: We aren’t able to do this lesson yet, because we haven’t mastered the other parts. Where should I post our videos?
The best is to post the exercises of each lesson under that lesson.
Ok. We are going back to lesson 2. I posted a video on that lesson, but it didn’t show up in the recent comments. I obviously need help on my handling and Tibby has her own ideas about cik/cap.
I saw it and I think your handling is actually getting much better -- and I wouldn’t worry about tightness too much for now!
I think things are starting to make sense to Tibby! I’m not sure if it is the cooler weather, results from the kibble experiment or what, but we are having a lot more FUN!
My instructor took a video of us during our lesson on Tuesday. I was really happy with Tibby! It was fun!
Cool! AND you look more connected to her and start to use the hand very well to cue her which side you want her on! And oh, is that Loretta with smooth BCs, I know her!
Yup! It’s that Loretta. She said she took a seminar with you when you were in Minnesota. She is a fun teacher!
Yes, I remember you said that, but didn’t know exactly about who you’re talking about. I know now, so tell her I say hi 🙂
WOW! What incredible progress -- looks like your dedication is paying off 🙂
Wow Catalina! That is so much better. You must be proud of Tibby! 🙂
Hi Silvia,
Here are two videos. One of serpentines and the second threadles. I need help with the threadles they are not progressing as the serpentines did.
Also, will you do a Foundations 2 or just repeat the current class.
Thank you.
Wow, the serpentines are PERFECT! Great job! For the threadles, just add them gradually, he comes in nicely after the tunnel, then say cik for the jump to get him jump shorter as that will make it easier to pull him in and then call to hand and reward, just as you do on the last try -- be static if necessary to get him in. Do some more successful repetitions like that, while adding more&more movement as you call him to hand -- and only then (after 5 successful tries on one jump for example) attempt the second one. Every next one is harder (as it’s hard to stay far enough along the line to still be able to pull in between), so again keep rewarding the second one for a while and only then try three.
Here’s our first video for lesson 5……backside of the jumps and serps.
We’ve been successful at threadle lines, however when I looked at the video I realized I’ve been backing down the line. What you’re doing looks much faster so I will start again at the beginning with baby steps. I assume when you talk about the dog coming in to your hand on threadles, you mean the outside hand (the one with the toy in your video)?
The line of pushes is going poorly. Will work on that some more before going public. 🙂
Great job with around and the serpentines! You could post the areas that cause you trouble too, maybe there is a very easy solution 🙂 Usually, you just need to wait less and move further sooner after stepping towards the wing to push the dog out. The threadles, I actually handle going somewhat backwards with a young dog too, but then try to keep my feet more&more in the right direction and only turn my front as it allows me to move faster and get further along the line. And yes, I use the outside hand for calling the dog in between on threadles.
Big congratulations from NH too!!!!
Here is our sequence and some threadles and pushes.
I set the tunnel up before looking at the course map. Rather than move it, I just ran the sequence reversed. 🙂 I’ve started making the transition to 16″ and she’s finding this 2″ change more difficult than earlier times I’ve raised the bar. I thought she was less fluid at 16″ so moved the bars back down in the sequence. I’ll do more multi wraps and figure 8’s and then try the sequence again at 16″. I found myself hanging around a lot waiting for her to come out of the tunnel so perhaps I should have run deeper into the tunnel with her? Would this have been faster?
Threadles aren’t progressing much. She loves (!) to serp and I’m finding it hard to shift her attention back to me. I worked a bit today on coming to hand with food instead of a toy and that seemed to draw her into the gap better, though it felt a lot like luring. Am I missing something here?
The pushes are going much better. We can now get three, but not every time and I haven’t added speed from the tunnel yet. When we do get three, it feels (and looks!) rather frantic. I’m still not always far enough ahead to cue around on the third jump so she serps it. I seem to have to step so deep into the gap that it slows me down. When I did the early exercises with a single jump, I could send her to the backside from quite a distance and pull off sideways. Any suggestions that would help me get further ahead?
Many thanks, Carol
Great job with the sequence! It actually looked great on 16″ too, but well, it never hurts to do some more multi-warps first 🙂 You can definitely try running further to the tunnel, running more is always a good idea 🙂 I think pushes and threadles actually look very good already, but as I warned in instructions already: it’s not an easy exercise at all, it takes some practice for you to see how soon you can move further -- and for the dog to start to see the pattern and start to help some. I can really see a big difference in how easy or not it is between La&Bu who know it really well vs. Le who is still learning. Outs would definitely be easier on more height though so you could try it on full height. You are still turning into her some, try to face the right direction all the time as that allows you to move faster. Stepping in is o.k., the important thing is that you leave immediately after stepping (no waiting) and that you don’t step any further as to the plane of the jump. For threadles, try to move closer to the jumps as the closest to the gap you are, the stronger your calling is. Keep rewarding coming in a lot (you can of course also use food for that) and things will get easier.
Here is the sequence. Sorry its blurry, I have to blame my husband for that. What I can’t blame him for is that I have to work on my pushes much more. Thank you for your comments.
Great job with the sequence! First push actually went really well, but it’s an easier one as you don’t move away from that jump and they don’t have a reason to pull off. For 12, try to stop a little for now to give him time to commit and reward for taking the jump -- and then move more every next time, but maybe still helping him with the hand some more: lowering the left shoulder and pulling it back some to open towards the dog a little bit would help. You can also try going less far to 4 to cue 4 as I think he could be tighter there if you didn’t go so deep: that just pulled him more to the left as necessary -- you don’t need to go to the middle of the jump, going to the wing should be enough.
Yes, I can see how my shoulder position on 12 cued the back of 13 instead of coming in on 12. I will do that for now even though it means I probably won’t be in the right position to cue the serpentine. The reason I went deep on 4 was because with my right hand cueing the cap he was coming in the gap like it was a threadle. Should I instead go only as far as the wing of 5 but keep my left arm up longer? Thank you.
Yes, for now just focus on getting him over 12 and reward that. But once he ready the pull back of the shoulder well, that will allow you moving as you do it and give you plenty of time to cue 13. The secret of getting to places is not to be word class sprinter, but to teach good commitment -- and handling cues that allow you to move all the time, without circling your feet all the time: you can’t run very fast with feet facing the wrong direction! 🙂 -- But you can run with a lowered shoulder! 🙂
To avoid threadle confusion, you do need to step all the way to the wing to close the gap -- but not any further as that I think. And yes, you would use right arm for 4 already for a threadle and in this situation, you would use left for 4 (I used right only with Bi who needed collection for 4 already) and right for 5.
Great feedback. I think I need the right arm too for collection since he prefers to jump in extension mostly. I will cue with the left arm for 4 but put my right arm up early and keep moving to the wing to close the gap. I will post the sequence again after practicing for a while.
Thank you again.
Hi, i’ve been away for a really long time and i’m sorry 🙁
So i’m not at time with the excercices, but i’m training 😉
Ok, here is my last video and my question: i’m putting the bars at small and Cairo looks to jump ok, in the wraps he makes good turns, but sometimes he drops the bar and in the straight lines he jumps ok, but jumps too far awayñ.
Huh, I think you are jumping some steps here… I don’t think his wraps are good, I don’t see any collection at all… Straight lines are o.k., he should jump far in straight lines! 🙂 But wraps need WAY more work. So forget about the straight lines for now, go lower, start with multi-wraps again (those in the video were too wide), then add some speed, do some sends and then figure 8s, then go to sequences from the lessons and only when all this is good, try coming from more of a straight line, but never over more than one straight jump first. Progress VERY gradually -- if you’re in a hurry, you will just get thrown back at the beginning, like this time. You had really beautiful wraps and now I don’t see even one wrap anymore… Going slowly is always the fastest way to the goal!
Ok, I’ll do that. The last month wasn’t really good for me, so couldn’t train too much, but now i’ll start again in the training, slower and better 😉
This is video of some out training and the sequence.
Thanks,
Mara
oops wrong link, sorry!
WOW!!!!!!! Mara, that was GREAT!
Hey Mara, nice and some motivation for us to work on the sequence. I thought it might be too hard for the young dogs -- but no, you did it! And the serpentines in between…!!!
That sure was great!!! Great understanding of around, I see you can easily do two in a row already! Too funny when you say out instead of around and she still does it right! Very nice clear and smooth handling, I loved the tightness of the serpentine, you sure made it look very easy!
Thank you Silvia, Kristin and Birgit. It’s a fun course!
WOW!!! You definitely made it look very easy 🙂
Here is our lesson 4 progress. Sorry for very late posting in a wrong place.
We finally got internet connection back and settling down in a new house ☺
We are loving it and finally started lesson 4 training from last weekend.
I only tried once but I would love to get a comment before I do next try in this week.
I know there are many things to fix.. I thought my body position or equipment set up wasn’t good?
We must catch up!
Emi & Niah
Great job with the sequence! Just make sure you support his line well for now, he still easily pulls off when you stop too suddenly, like the first time on 4 and the first time on a last wrap. With better understanding of cik&cap, that will go away, but he needs some more support for now. No problems with the rest! To make a serpentine line more of a straight line, set the tunnel entrances closer OR move it so that exit hole is creating a straight line with the jumps and then always use the other hole for an entry. Also, do some rewarding for a complete wrap, he is getting thrown out of the turn of his wraps some when coming from a straight line with lots of speed, so try to reward those so that he needs to complete the whole wrap. Nice see-saw banging, what a great pushes on that mini see-saw -- somewhat less confident on a real see-saw though, so keep working on that!
Thank you Silvia.
Yes, I notice that he is very sensitive with my body movement and tunnel was not lined to jumps.
Rewarding on the complete wrap is me, not thinking fast enough..
Next time I will run and visualize what I am doing more clearly before run with him. but I am happy that his drive to curved tunnel is getting better.
As soon as I include 2o2o on see-saw, he was much softer and less confident.
Should I not worried about 2o2o until he is confident with see-saw?
(oh- and I will post on lesson 4 next time. sorry for not placing to right lesson.)
Yes, I think I would do some more banging on the see-saw and add 2on2off later, but again on very low elevation from the ground.
Hi Emi,
Do you know about the rule changes for equipment in Australia, coming into effect on Jan. 1st ? The full height seesaw is no more so Niah will never have to do one. (Replaced by a ridiculous mini seesaw that is not much higher than the small tippy board you were working on first.) You might want to take this into consideration when training as you will only ever have to do very low elevation from the ground.
Really? Why is that? How high will the see-saw be and do other dimensions stay the same?
Unfortunately yes -- certainly not an equipment change I’m a fan of. In Australia there is an opportunity for rule changes only once every 5 years and each state sends in a submission of what they would like. Then there is a meeting with one representative from each state, all the proposals are discussed and voted on.
I have no idea how this one got through -- it was only proposed by one state and most of us laughed when we read their proposal, not thinking for a moment it would get in, guess we should all have taken it a bit more seriously. Still don’t know how it got carried as no one from any other state that I have spoken to is in favour of it, including people I know from the original state that proposed it -- and from January we are going to be stuck with it for a minimum of 5 years, even if it turns out to be a disaster.
Dimensions are plank length 3.5 metres (which is only a fraction shorter than currently) but the height is only 30cm from the ground at the central bracket. (Think this is around 12 inches)
Silvia, do you mind if I ask what is your opinion on this?
I’ve stopped training my young BC’s seesaw -- we were almost to full height when this came in -- and have gone back to the bang game and just playing around on a lower plank, as I am now unsure whether I still want the same end position on the lower board as I have been training on full size. I currently don’t need a seesaw in competition as she is still in Novice agility and we don’t have the seesaw until the next level up, so have the luxury of time to work on it.
Hi Julia,
Yeah, I heard about see saw changed to mini-seesaw but I never seen it and I didn’t realized that small ! 35cm from the ground is nothing… and I didn’t know that this rule has to stay for 5 years! wow. how bazaar!
well, I still want to train see saw some point, I think it is very impressive obstacle, which creates movement and sound!
but for now, I will stick with my potting mix-aka-mini-see-saw for stronger bang game for Niah..
Thank you for the information.
I don’t see a reason why to change it and am no fan of changes that don’t make any sense. FCI is still a queen of that though: making changes that don’t make sense. They are shortening DW (???), but refused the proposal to stop judging up contacts and for taking a table out (we never see it anyway, but FCI delegates want to have it on WC, so it’s a kind of weird: you never see a table other than on WC and you need to wait there for 5s as if that’s what all the people came to see: I think agility is much more interesting as that!). But I guess that’s what happens when decisions are made by people who don’t even have a dog for last 10 years or so…
Well done Emi, great to see Niah back 🙂 Oh, I’m so sad about this see-saw rule change. I’ve always thought it looked like the most impressive obstacle and grace LOVES it. The mini see-saw seems so boring!!! I asked someone about it and they said it got through because people said it was dangerous because dogs were jumping off the end. It sounds like a rule change for the people who forgot to train their dogs! 🙂
Julia -- is it true that NADAC and VCA now have different distances between the weave poles? Wouldn’t this be very difficult for the dogs that do them fast?
🙂
Its funny here in Finland when a table appears on a course. Obviously nobody bothers training it, so many of the “pro” level dogs lose the plot. I’ve only had it once, but it was so funny to watch all the bloopers I can understand why I judge would want to slip it in. I personally train it, just in case…
That Aussie mini-seesaw sounds stupid.
Personally, I NEVER saw it anywhere but France and WC. WC judges have instructions from FCI officials (especially the president is forcing it: as he is from France…) to use it on WC, so they will sometimes use it WC qualifications to prepare competitors for it, but other as from that reason, I never saw it anywhere, set by any not-French judge.
We’re working through some issues with out/jump and and threadles. We’re slowly building towards the 2nd jump when we are on, but really can rarely do that. I realize that part of my problem is that I haven’t put jumps on command. With my old dogs I used “over”, but honestly with Nero I don’t have time to say “o”--“ver”. In the middle of the video you see what I struggle with sometimes with the outs. I switch to saying out/tight and that seems to help. Overall I’m pretty happy with the outs when we’re in motion. I have to really stomp down with my leg and that’s why I’m too slow to get to the next jump doing an out. I really like just planning a gradual progression and will slowly build up.
Nancy and Nero
PS Huge congratulations to you and La. I’m so glad you are able to keep going so strong at her age. In my videos you can see my PS, Saales, who is only 6 months older. She is retired for not trying once she hit around 9. She really likes to just supervise. Sometimes I give her a turn, but she’d honestly rather watch.
Well, you actually don’t want to say out+over as it’s definitely too many things to say: out should mean go out AND jump, but you of course need to build it gradually. I will say out+cik/cap though, BUT only when I really want a wrap after an out. On outs on a serpentine setting, that’s of course not the case, so I’m only saying out there, but of course building it gradually and doing a lot of rewarding for committing to the jump well and jumping towards me. So yes, that’s what you can focus on now. BUT you definitely can’t use out for pushing to the other side of a jump and jumping towards you AND for turning him away from you and taking a jump away from you as you used it on a serpentine! That’s NOT out/push/around -- using it for two so different situations makes a cue not mean anything anymore. It’s important to be consistent with the cues and you can only use this new one for pushing to the other side of a jump and taking a jump towards you.
And yes, La is my little fighter. She was diagnosed with collapsed trachea at 1 and I was told she won’t be able to breath much longer :), had stomach perforation at 7 years and I was told she has zero chances to survive and she had malign mammary tumours at 9 -- but she always comes back to doing things she loves. 🙂
Thanks--I’ll have to think this one though. Between keeping the herding terms separate and these it’s really taxing my old brain that has always had trouble with directionals. I think I’m going to try to use “around” for this and out in the way I have traditionally used it (like on the serpentine). In agility the courses that we’ll mostly run here in Montana are very fast and flowing with minimal turns and an emphasis on working at a distance. With my other dogs I got bored with these as we couldn’t do the huge distance challenges and the courses are kept pretty simple for those dogs. For fun I’ll try to travel to some USDAA trials where the courses are more like AKC.
Anyways for me I’ll use “out” for taking an obstacle away from me and to increase distance. I’ll use “around” for what we’ve been working on.
Thanks for letting me ramble, Nancy
Yeap, if you are already using out for something else, even if with other dogs, you definitely don’t want to change it now, it’s too hard to remember as we run. You definitely need a new word -- around should work.