Busting The Myths II
After busting the "end the training on a good note" myth, it's time to also look into how a scared dog sees things and reevaluate the general truth to "just take him there to make him see it's not scary".
When something scary happens, most people are instructed to immediately take the dog back to make him see it's actually not scary. But it IS scary. Once the dog gets scared, he is not in a perfect emotional mode to see things aren't scary. That's much easier when you're not scared already. I hear you saying: but, I did exactly that and my dog was just fine. Of course he was. Most confident dogs without fear issues can easily be handled that way and they will do just fine. When something bad happens in agility ring, like crasing into a tire or falling off the dog-walk, it's usually the handler who gets scared the dog got scared, but most dogs are in so much drive when they run that they don't even realize they crashed into a tire or fell off of a dog walk - even if it's really bad, they don't feel the pain with all the adrenaline rush just yet. So yes, they will be fine even if you take them back immediately. I did that with my Samoyed and he was fine. I could easily do that with La and Le and definitely Bi - who cares. But Lo and Bu... Yeah right.
When something scary happens, it doesn't matter what I do for La, Bi or Le - they will be perfectly happy to do it again. However, when speaking about fearful dogs, like Lo and Bu, I learned an important lesson: if they get scared, they get in an emotional state that doesn't allow them to see "things are actually not scary" and asking them to immediately go back into a situation that scared them was ALWAYS contra productive, despite I was always shaping it (clicking for approaching the object, rewarding away from it to let them "escape" from it, not asking for more as they offered on their own etc.). - The longer and more patiently I worked on it, the longer they were rehearsing what just happened. So I learned to not even check if the dog is o.k. right away: but immediately start a party, make the dog extra busy with her favourite tricks, do some tunnels with Bu and keep them as busy and as much in movement as possible. I then avoid the scary situation for a while and after a couple of weeks, try it again. After a couple of weeks, things don't look as scary anymore AND as the dog never had the time to rethink what happened, they're usually perfectly fine with it.
I handle scary situations the same way. I used to think that the best way to make Bu feel confident in trials is to keep her with me, make her see it's not scary. But it is scary for her. So what works best for her is to respect her fear, keep her away from a scary situation in a safe place (preferably a car) and then bring her in in the very last moment, keeping her busy with tricks to not have time to notice all the scary things around her, run and then run directly out of the ring back to the car to party. She knows the routine, she knows I won't be asking her to be comfortable with dogs barking around her or interfere with them, she knows we'll just do our run, in the safety of the ring, away from other dogs, and go right back and she is fine with that.
It was the same with Lo. I first tried to get her happy to interact with people, giving them treats and asking them to give her treats. It didn't help. It only put her in conflict as she wanted that treat, but didn't want to have anything with that person. When I gave up doing it, she was so happy that she could simply ignore everybody - and couldn't care less about their presence! - But would start to bark anytime somebody would want to give her a treat - for like her whole life!
Finally, I learned to respect their fears, to earn trust that I would never ask something unsafe from them and make sure they know they can feel safe with me. My favourite way to socialize my puppies now is to take them to as many places as possible, but mostly keep them in a sherpa bag so that they can observe the world from a safe place and only let them out if they feel confident about it. The world looks so much nicer when you're not scared!
I am sure you will get so many stories! Certainly my Roscoe and Spur are like your Lo and Bu. I even call Roscoe autistic long before I knew you call Bu autistic. He’s so brilliant and, yet, socially bankrupt. Your advice is so good. I have made so many mistakes and learned some of these myths don’t work the hard way, too. Each is such a lesson to us!! Great writing! So many dogs like Roscoe, Spur, Lo and Bu will thank you for this!!!
Thank you!!! Amy
My Blast is the same way. I did so many things wrong with him, but I have learned from my mistakes and know better for the next dog. I like how Amy puts it “brilliant and, yet, socially bankrupt”. Just the perfect statement.
AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have the same routine with Cooper, we always stay in the car, come out and play far away from anyone and head directly into the ring, run, and then run back to the car for a big party by ourselves! Works for us and once I figured that out it made trailing so much fun! So nice to hear that it’s a more common practice even done by World Champions 🙂 Pamela & Cooper
And then there is Spur -- surely not socially bankrupt! He dragged me into the Expo at Nationals! 😀 But, he wasn’t as excited to run there since there were no fans at the ingate. He SO loves his “Spur fan club” to make a fuss over him and say HI to him and our local shows are full of Spur Fans!!! He enjoys his “Happy Hour” before his runs. His fears of the teeter and jump bars have made him struggle so much, but I learned the importance of his fans and have used that to help him. 😀
Yeap, whatever works best, every dog is different, that’s why it’s so important to know them well and adjust the trial routines to them.
i’m thinking it also must take some time to establish the routine, trust, and confidence? at our local venue (inside, very crowded soccer facility) there is no easy way to just get to the ring for our run. we have to go quite a way thru lots of people and dogs, some in crates barking and lunging, and by the time we get there, wicked is very intimidated. her start line became a crouch and she had no acceleration. i have decided not to go there again any time soon, and i am hoping that good experiences at other places will help later (mostly outside, larger areas, place to play). however, at home, or wherever she is comfortable and confident, she can be quite the bossy brat!
Yes it will take time. My dog went to the same training hall for nearly 2 years before he decided that it was a great place to be and worked as he can work. It then took him over half a year of competitions (1 or 2 per month in different places) to start to do what he can do in that setting -- and he had been going to dog shows for 2 years before that. Shy dogs seem to be more thinking dogs and you need alot of credits in the bank of positive experiences.
Routine helps -- alot. What also helps is every now and then if there is an easier place -- eg. a competition in a known location, or one where there is no audience all around the ring. I always see an improvement after runs in these places.
Of course, it definitely takes time. Indoor crowded facilities can be extra scary. I always check different options how to get to the ring without too many barky and lunging dogs, but it’s sometimes hard. It’s also hard when the car is parked far and there is a long way to the ring as first of all, many things can happen in between and secondly, I can’t time my arrival so good and I often end up waiting much longer as I would want to. I have the same problem at WC: much longer wait as ideally… But with more experience, it’s easier&easier for her to handle things like that. I also didn’t notice that running her in extra scary situations (like WC) would have a negative effect after: she handles it pretty well AND is extra speedy and happy in our next trials after a scary one. It looks like every experience that I can keep positive, even if it’s somewhat scary, gives her more confidence and easier situations are becoming really easy and fun after the scarier ones.
I think what you are saying too is to honor our own instincts. Sometimes we can deny what our own gut is telling us about what is right for our dogs because the “experts” or the World Champions (not you) tell us we should do certain things certain ways. We are dealing with different species but we tend to filter their experiences through the human perspective. We will make mistakes but if we can observe and respect what we see our dog telling us--no matter what others say we are supposed to do--in the end we will do the right thing.
Yeap, dogs are so different that there really isn’t one best way for all… -- Would be too boring if there was!
and what would you do with a dog who is also scared in the agility parcours, which tries to escape and hides under your car and when he gets older does some agility, but very slowly?
I wouldn’t ask a dog like this to do agility just yet. That would be betraying the trust that I build on so carefully. I would VERY slowly build positive experiences on calmer agility fields where I can still get the speed and joy and in trials, only ask for a trick or two in the crowd, no agility yet. It only happened once that Bu didn’t really want to run… Malinois was starting after us and she is really scared of them and we had nowhere to hide as it was indoor and we had to wait in a long narrow hallway. She started, stopped after two jumps and looked scared. I immediately send her to the nearest tunnel I found to make her forget about it and after that tunnel, she could run again, so we actually did finish the run.
I agree, everyone allways tells me that I should socialise Terra better so he wouldn’t be scared of strangers, the problem is that their idea of a well socialised dog is a dog that comes to everyone for hugs and cuddles! and that is NEVER going to happend with Terra. Very early on I took on the attitude for him to be fine around poeple, and thrusting me that those poeple are not giong to approach him, ever. If poeple want to pet him I just tell them not to, Mum thinks I’m being rude but if it’s best for Terra, I couldn’t care less. It really has helped him to be more comfortable in crouds and he can now play with me at the agility field all though there are a few poeple and dogs in the next ring.
I’m a bit curious though, with Bu and Lo, how did you manage thet first trial when you had to have them measured to determin witch size class they’d be running in? Especially Lo, that you said is fine BY poeple (like Terra) but doesn’t accept interaction with strangers if I understood correctly?
Bu was actually never measured as she is obviously large. And Lo was actually fine with stranges touching her IF I held her and tell her she is o.k. She never enjoyed it, but she was a really really devoted dog who never asked questions: if I said it’s o.k., it’s o.k. She could handle anything at the vet too that way. But she would go in frantic barking if somebody wanted to say hi and reached towards her head…
Point of socialisation is only to make the dog as comfortable as possible in all situations, not that they need to behave like MR or MS super-friendly. I had great success with my dog in clicker-training him to look at other dogs. He gets rewarded for looking at other dogs, and then checking back with me. This has the advantage in that you can break the dog’s negative focus on something with the click. First practice at a great distance. This changed him (over a period of saw 3 years) from a fear all to a dog that actively seeks the company of other dogs.
My other dog is dog-ok but does not like people. I am using the same on her -- she was first rewarded for looking at a person. Now she is at the stage where she with touch a person’s hand happily with her nose. Lets be clear -- she will not let a person touch her yet, she has to do the touching. But this has helped her and I’m sure she will eventually allow being touched, but it will take as long as it takes! She MUST learn this, because I want to show her too, and at the moment whenever she goes to the vet she must be sedated for otherwise simple proceedures -- not good. Like it or not, dogs must learn some degree of handling by strangers, because sooner or later they will need it. This does not mean they need to like it, just understand that it is OK. For the measurement, practice first with you and shape a built-in response to the measuring tool, then change to someone else the dog likes, and then change to a real location, and then change the person to a stranger. If your dog is an obvious height in Finland he may not even be measured. They only measure the non-obvious cases here. But worth to train it anyway!
Nicole, Bigi + Sen
Well, Finish measurements are sure very very interesting… Our dogs always look like midgets when we share a podium with Finish “medium” team 🙂 🙂 🙂
Yes well they tried to make my tiny dog medium too! The measuring judge did not even have the damn stick on the table -- it was floating in the air. I had to day, perhaps try again! Medium class is 35-42.99 but I suppose its FCI
From what I’ve heard and seen, there are some judges in Finland that can measure a 48cm dog in medium, so I guess yours are real midgets even in a small class 🙂
Couldn’t agree more! Penny got very scared of the speakers at one of the first trials I brought her to and people told med to stay near the speakers all day and feed her. I looked at my BC baby and my gut told me to go elsewhere forget about it and play. At her next trial there was no fear of speakers. Every time I have approached her fear in the first way (i.e. trying to show her what she found scary wasn’t) it has backfired enormously and have taken a lot longer to conquer.
What exactly is a sherpa bag??
Following what you think is best for your puppy was definitely a good idea!!! I call sherpa bag the same bag I use for travelling by plane with dogs. It’s just like soft crate only that you can hang it on your shoulder… -- so yes, it works with small dogs/puppies only…
This was a GREAT article. I too, have a dog that sounds a lot like your Lo & Bu.
She is a rescue, who was locked in a laundry room the first almost 4 years of her life. Her personality tends towards neuortic/OCD to begin with, and this lack of socialization made it worse.
She is a basset hound (I know, not your typical agility dog), and we started agility to build confidence. Believe it or not, she excelled at it. But, she worries a LOT outside of the ring-barking dogs, certain types of people……I worked very hard with her-using tricks/a ring routine to keep her focused on me and not all the “scary” stuff. The longer we wait for the run, the more she has time to think about all the things that could worry her. We are also an “in and out” team. I crate out of my car wherever possible, we pop in line with 2 or 3 dogs ahead, and then back out to our crate for a party. She has been super successful for her breed, is half way to her AKC agility preferred championship, and will be attending the AKC Invitational in Florida. I will admit, I am a little nervous about attending such a loud, particularly loud event-and I would be curious to know how you adjust if you just can’t physically crate out of your car-what do you do (like when you are at a WC?) are there any tips you can share? Are there things I can do before I go to continue working on our relationship/building our confidence?
We have been trying to get her out to lots of different agility venues, and I am upping the size to see how she mentally handles it-the last thing I want to do is put her in a position where she is uncomfortable-she would walk across fire for me…and it breaks my heart when she is fearful.
I too, in the beginning asked a lot of people to “pet and treat” Princess, and now realize how conflicted she was-thanks to trainer Leslie McDevitt. We used a lot of “Control Unleashed” excercises to teach her games that use people/scary things as targets (look at me, etc.) which has helped tremendously…
Anyway, great post-I am rambling 🙂 thank you for these wonderful insights!
Lisa & the agility bassets
Wow, would like to see a basset doing agility, do you have a video of her in the ring? Congratulations on getting to Invitational, how exciting! I’m sure she will do fine, just follow your routine as closely as possible (or adjust it some in advance to prepare her if you know something that is possible in other trials won’t be possible there). I actually kept Bu in a van that we came to WC with also on WC -- had a longer walk to the area and it was hard to time it right, but I still chose it over having her in a noisy hall the whole day. Long wait and the noise when we were in the preparation ring already where toys and food are not allowed anymore was the hardest, but thanks to previous good experiences, she was able to handle it really well and ran just great! I’m sure it will be the same for your girl, she sounds to trust you enough to feel comfortable in that ring!
Great article!
At 10weeks my Blue was afraid of everything on an agility field…I juste didn’t make agility with him..We worked on our relationship, I made him trust me, he knows I won’t let him alone in a scary situation and then…At 1 year on age we came back on the agility field, he found everything so much fun and at 3 he was competing in the highest level…
He learned me a lot on scary dogs!