O.k., time for your first homework!
1. find a way to make your dog run as fast as he can, tape him from the side and study his striding in slow motion or even frame by frame: how far apart his hind feet are, how far forward hind feet reach over front feet, how long and high the stride is, how his back look like and where his head is: many people think you want low head for running contacts, but in fact, you want the head look exactly the same as when running full speed in the fields 🙂
2. have a dog run over the plank, tape him from the side and compare it with the video above - you can tape it at an angle you're currently at. If you're just starting, restrain the dog before your plank, carpet or whatever you're using, throw a toy and release. Slowly bring the dog further away from the plank to really have them come to the plank with full speed. You don't need to overdo the distance, especially if you have long plank/carpet, as finding the plank could be problematic or the dog before you add some more height on it. Mark anything that looks like running in the fields from the first video, jackpot when feet are close to the end of a plank/carpet. Don't forget to click it or at least mark it with your voice! I prefer clicking, but you can also first use a voice and start clicking later, when you know your dog's stride better and can predict it better.
As we already discussed in comments before, we're for now throwing a toy in advance, letting the dog chase it, in order to get full speed. So yes, the dog is rewarded every time with a ball - so make sure that you really make the best tries even more special, use excitement in your voice, a play of tug on his favourite toy or food if that's his real preference - in short: make a party about the really good ones and don't worry about not so good ones - just throw that ball again! 🙂
3. to make it easier for the dog to understand what you're clicking for on that plank, we'll be teaching some tricks that are the best to help them understand how to use their feet and that you might be clicking them for using them. The two things you will try this time is cavaletti work - walking the dog over drawers or boxes on the floor - and teaching the dog to step with front feet on an object and clicking for any movements of hind feet: the final goal is a full circle in both directions, but first click even for just a weight shift and then go from there.
Post a video with all 3 assignments, first two also in slow motion please! This is a good check-up for those who are already running their dogs on a raised plank and a good stride-study that will help you see and mark the correct striding better for those just starting.
Also, read through the comments and see the videos in introduction page, you can learn a lot through videos and comments of others. Once you see your dog is running nicely, with an even stride, hind feet separation and hind feet reaching further from front feet (see discussion and video on that we had in comments!), you can put a brick or something under one end of the plank and have them run over slightly elevated plank - I'll tell you when you're ready based on the videos you'll send.
Left front foot just left the ground, hind feet reaching forward - this is what I mean by hind feet reaching over where the front feet were.
And this is what I mean by hind feet separation: hind feet hitting two different spots as far apart as possible (vs. staying parallel, hitting the same spot).
Puh! A lot of rolling frisbees, throwing balls and kicking a football low. I have found out that she jumps when the object is bumpy, too close, not clearly visible (in somewhat high grass),… I have found out that she runs low and even when she runs on an even surface and really chase a cat or running to another dog that is far away (then she only bounces when she gets closer).
I have now got access to a piece of “grassfield”, a place where I could train her with more space (after I cut the grass and made the surface more even, it is more a jungle at the moment). I hope that will help with the training. I could have her coming with some speed to the plank then. I can’t try that now since she starts at the very last centimeter of our terrass. On the new place there is also more space after the plank so I could try to get the ball further away from the plank. And I could try to chase the toy, running along with her, perhaps that would be good. I have noticed that the two times where I trained at the dog club she did much better. Even when the ramp was just the thin down ramp from the dog walk (but at the same heigth as I have at home). I hope it will help to train at the new place, I am somewhat starting to despair from the lack of success. 🙁 I WANT her to run, just don’t manage somehow..
I wonder if I should start to use the clicker even though I thought that was so difficult and often clicked the wrong ones. I have the feeling that she doesn’t understand at all when I jackpot and when she doesn’t get a reward. It seems that she just runs the way it suits her and hope that I will give the jackpot. What do you think Silvia?
Yes, I think the lack of space can really be the problem, most dogs won’t run full speed when limited with space. The floor on your terrass is not ideal for full speed running either, grass is definitely better, so I hope you can start training at the new place soon! And yes, I like to use a clicker for RC because it’s so much more precise and that’s very important for RC. We all click a wrong one sometimes, but it does get easier&easier.
Thanks for yor advice Silvia! I was almost afraid that you would say that I can stop training RC now since I obviously dont’ seem to have a talent for it.. But as long as you don’t mind giving me advices I am determined to get RC, it is so beautiful and crazy fast!
I also have hopes for the new place, but there is some work to be done first (even removing smaller trees I realised).
It’s not a question of a talent, it’s a question of enthusiasm 🙂 -- Looks like you have that one, so I’m sure we’ll get there!
Now I have a big smile on my face! 🙂
Hi, Silvia.
Here is Da Vinci’s lesson 1 video. Sorry it’s long, but we need a lot of help I think. I feel like things went bad this week and I don’t know what to do next. I put the planks/ carpet away for a couple days so we could focus on tricks. I had some really bad clicks that I worry encouraged the leaping. I keep experimenting to see what gets me the most consistent running. We were running around a cone initially, but I had trouble staying consistent with “handling” while throwing the ball straight and in time. I noticed that he really likes to chase those rollers so tried that too, but they are very challenging to throw. I’m curious if you think her runs better for the rollers over the ball (if so, I’ll just have to take time and learn to throw them). He really enjoys food rewards so I tried that for jackpotting toward the end of the video…ball for chasing and food for the extra good ones. By the end of the week, it seemed I had tried a variety of things, but don’t know what direction to go or which combination of set-up/ toy/ jackpot would be best to use with him. Or even if I should go back to running on just carpet without the boards under. I’m a bit frustrated, but trying not to get too worked up about it since he is so young and just had a growth spurt. I have no problem going slow, I’m just confused at the moment and don’t want to mess him up 😉
On a good note, he did fantastic at our herding lesson today!!!! Quite a bit of talent.
You could jackpot 6 yes, despite his striding is quite short three, he doesn’t seem to run full speed there. I wouldn’t click 9, 10, 18 or anything that goes up in the air. Rollers are giving you pretty good running, but are really difficult to throw… Maybe you can get the same effect by a ball that rolls well, thrown low? Still, as you’re getting some really good ones, that’s not too bad. Just be sure you make lots of difference between the bad ones and the good ones. Let’s keep working like that some more and see what we get.
Hi Silvia,
This is our latest session. I’m trying to vary my position and starting her from various points on the dog walk or off the dog walk and having her run the entire DW. What do you think? I have noticed that if the plank bounces she jumps off the side, so I am going to have to pay extra attention to stabilizing it. Two days ago I practiced in an arena with the plank raised on a stool (like I’ve done in the past) and she was jumping to the side a lot. When I watched the video I noticed that the plank was bouncing just a bit and that was enough to make her jump. It was a very bad session.
I’ve been experimenting a little with what I throw and when I throw it. A frizbee, which she adores, does NOT work. I either throw it too high or off at an angle. I am unable to throw the ball first and release her to it. She anticipates the throw and will break her stay. If I restrain her, she is much slower running after the ball. It’s almost as if she likes to ‘race’ the ball. I bought that toy, ‘the chase it’ and she loves it. She loves to chase things anyway.
I am unsure on how to proceed from here. I’ve been at this height for 1 month now but switched the set up to a plank on a 2 weeks ago (this was Maia’s 4th time with this set up)
Here is today session (I have the session from two days ago too, but it was awful and I see my mistakes, but I can post it if you wanted to see)
Hm, yes, her hind feet separation doesn’t look as good as it did when running on the grass… It does look better though when you’re starting her further back… Let’s try one sessions starting her with a tunnel before DW, running entire low DW, throwing a toy low and long well in advance (if you run the whole thing, it’s easy to time the throw well as you don’t have a stay-release problem) and see what we get.
Hi Silivia,
I took your advice and on Sunday this is what I got. I did notice that I was throwing the ball much too high. I tried restraining her twice (I’ve been working on this with her -- she does not push against me at all -- what I do before I release her is I push her back and I run) Here is the video from Sunday:
I tried again today and got much, much better results. I threw the ball lower and the grass was nice and short too which helped I think. I have noticed that she runs much faster if I am behind her and do not run with her all the way and if the ball is thrown just after she is on the DW, not before. What do you think?
Is this better? Should I stay at this height and change my positions more?
oh in the second video, the first two tries I had her infront of the DW and all the rest were through a tunnel first. 🙂
Oops I forgot the second link:
Good, she is running amazingly well, considering that she is a retrain. She only leaps when she flies over the apex so much that she doesn’t have room for another stride then. Did you say you also have a normal dog-walk that you could use? This one is o.k. for now, but once you put the plank higher, the down ramp will get so much shorter that it will be hard for her to still fit in two strides. Longer dog-walk would allow her more room to adjust her striding and practice two strides on a down ramp (vs. just one that is of course unrealistic for this size of a dog on a normal dog-walk).
hi silvia
i am currently training 2 young bc to do rc. 1 large bc is fine but the other small bc is slow on a low dw. she does not go full speed so jumps the last stride for the thrown toy. she is fine on the plank but as the height increases she slows down and starts to jump. not receiving the reward for jumps has caused her to slow down and getting the toy has rewarded her jumping. i continued to throw the toy whatever happened and jackpot her running through but the percentage of jumps were far too high and not improving. i am trying to increase the speed with reward verbal and toy, i am running with her and putting a target word in so she strides not jumps. this is working and she is running through the contact area nicely all be it slower than a true rc. it is the same for the a frame too. you advice would be helpful. she is a true thinker and hates to think she has made a mistake by not throwing the toy she then thinks how she can get the toy and she slows down. she is the same way with everything weaves and hurdles too.
I’m not sure if I understand correctly, is it the increased height or a transfer from a plank to a dog-walk that slows her down? I would guess the transfer from a plank to a dog-walk? And the angle/height of the plank was the same as the one from a dog-walk when you did that transfer, right? Did you try backchaining the dog-walk, doing just the down plank first to make it looks like her plank and then slowly bring her back? And she is also slow on A-frame??? Why are you doing A-frame anyway if you’re not yet finished with the dog-walk? Is it a lowered A-frame? I know, many questions and no answers, but I need to know more on what you’ve done so far.
yes transfer from plank to dw. Yes the angle from the plank to full dw was the same. as i increased the height of dw to 2ft high gradually. it is when she runs the whole thing. i did back chain yes. that was all ok. i throw the toy and to prevent looking backwards i throw in good time but this seems to encourage the jump. the a frame she is ok with it lowered but one day she jumped the apex big and landed in the contact zone (which was brilliant) but it frightened her. i lowered it again and built her confidence but as i put it up she does nt jump the apex with gusto anymore. i would say the same for dw she is nervous about running over it.
So when you originally backchained the dog-walk, she was good running over it, but then got scared on A-frame on that occasion and then she got slow on a dog-walk too? If so, I would give her a break for a couple of weeks or even a month (that’s actually what you would need to do immediately after the accident, it might not work so well now that she already had an opportunity to rehearse her fear) and then start backchaining it again.
So, there is our homework 🙂 I think, we are the last one(lagging students)
Here is Smilla’s running on full speed
Running contacts
The same in slow motion
Smilla’s circle in both side. She is doing much better on highest objects and not so good on small one
You video is in wrong proportions, right? Her stride looks unnaturally short, but I think it’s due to the fact the video is compressed in one direction. Still, what is her height? I think at the end, she will be doing two strides on a down ramp, not three anymore and that can for a while destroy her hits, but I think you need to start working in that direction right now as it’s better to deal with it now as later. You need to make her run more, so start her further back and throw toys in advance to get full extension.
For pivoting, try to stop luring it and try to shape it as it’s only then they need to really think about what their hind legs are doing.
Thank a lot for reply! Yes, I think video in slow motion looks unnaturally, I have to learn how to edit video.
Smilla is 34,5-35 cm. Do you think, she has so long jumps, she can run down rump just in two strides? Her natural hind fit separation also not so big, as your dogs doing. Maybe, her body composition don’t allow her to do longer separation.
I want to ask you for a favor: Smilla is in season now and will be mated (there is her second season in a 5 years and I want to leave puppy from her). Can we now take a brake and continue with your second RC class from lesson 2 in August?
Thank you in advance!
I meant all the videos, are they “squarer” as they should be? Your dog-walk looks too tall and your dogs’ stride too short? But oh, I didn’t know she is that small! Could be she will indeed need to do three steps then! But o.k., yes, you can continue in August class then.
Hi, Silvia! We are back to school 🙂 Can we continue with Smilla with RC2 class from second lesson or I have to pay once again for her?
O.k., sure, I just gave you the access and then you simply start posting where you stopped posting in this class.
Thanks a lot! We’ll continue from lesson 2 🙂
And there is Motja’s video
3 weeks before we started to run full dog-walk: sometimes she jumps, but I think we have about 90% hits, and about 70% of them pretty low. Motja is running to food bowl, so we have to get it off. We need you experience, how we can do it? Now she is starting from tunnel and we added one bar after dogwalk(so far with stick on ground).
Maybe, we can start teaching turns? Or it is too early for us? Can we start with A-frame?
There is also problem with entry zona, we have only about 50% inn 🙁
Motja is very interesting dog, she like running on full speed, but only straight. If there are some turns on course, she is slowing down very much. Will be glad to hear any ideas from you 🙂
Running contacts
Sorry, no slow motion yet 🙁 I just teaching how to do it, and Smilla’s video was my pilot-project
It’s very unusual for this length of stride to miss 50% of up contacts! Those that I can see from your video are all done, are you sure she is missing so many??? Anyway, for now, I would leave it alone, maybe she is a little bit unsure about the dog-walk and takes off for it in the very last moment, that can make them miss it.
Food is harder to fade as a toy yes, that’s why I recommend toys. What does she prefer? If you leave food there, but throw as toy as she is approaching it, would she run after the toy or go for food? If first, you can start switching to a toy that way. If second, then we need another plan. Maybe put food on the other side of a straight tunnel, have it there so long she will start expecting it, but then don’t put it there, but reward after tunnel with either a thrown toy or food from your hand -- but only after a tunnel. You can actually try the same with jump, if she is already expecting food there, maybe you can get the same pull forward to the jump without a bowl there and then reward by a thrown toy. I would only go for turns once we get nice straight forward tries without food. -- AND after you make turns more motivating for her away from a dog-walk! But you can start with A-frame yes, no problem! To make turns more fun, teach cik&cap and reward heavily for driving out of the turn around an object (not a wing just yet).
Great cavaletti! And pivoting, try without a lure!
Hi Silvia,
Here is the result of our 3 day weekend, we did 3 to 4 session a day.
As you will see in the video, it seems that we thaugh her to try to jump her last stride this winter when we were working in our basement without your supervision. If you go back to the video we posted before the first homework( rel="nofollow ugc"> ), you will notice that we were getting jumps at the end and not realizing it (therefore paying it) much of the time .
I am so glad that you will have another RC class in august because we have enough remedial work to do that we will be behind with our homework. But better late then never !
We noticed that when our throw is such that the dog runs on the grass right beside the plank, or steps off the plank at the end, we never get the higher and/or longuer stride at the end that we so often get.
Here is our video :
Looking forward to hear from you,
Claire
Hi Silvia,
Here is the result of our 3 day weekend, we did 3 to 4 session a day.
As you will see in the video, it seems that we thaugh her to try to jump her last stride this winter when we were working in our basement without your supervision. If you go back to the video we posted before the first homework (I included it in my last post but it seems to be hiding part of my message to you, so I am posting my message a second time here), you will notice that we were getting jumps at the end and not realizing it (therefore paying it) much of the time.
I am so glad that you will have another RC class in august because we have enough remedial work to do that we will be behind with our homework. But better late then never !
We noticed that when our throw is such that the dog runs on the grass right beside the plank, or steps off the plank at the end, we never get the higher and/or longuer stride at the end that we so often get.
Looking forward to hear from you,
Claire
Well, you’re definitely getting GREAT running with that carpet! Really great speed and hind feet separation and some really perfect hits! Keep running her on the carpet then, meantime get a thin plank of the same width, put it underneath and then start adding height. You can also use a tunnel, but at normal distance (not right after!), it’s actually not that difficult to fade, you then just put more&more jumps before the tunnel and eventually do real little sequence before the tunnel -- not for now of course. And yes, since she is technically a retrain, considering what you were rewarding in the basement, that first part is harder for her as for a fresh dog, so you will need to spend some more time on flat, to have her forget about old behaviour, relax and simply RUN after that ball. She sure does great on a carpet!
Hi Silvia,
Here are our latest sessions. On may 23rd I added a thin board below the carpets. At the end of the day I raised the end just a little bit. I think my next step would be to generalize this great running on different colored surfaces. Particularly blue and yellow since she was thaught to leap on these colors. I might even bring back the same rubber texture she use to leap on in order to make sure that the leaping is completely extinguished ?
I also have access to a competition dog walk with adjustable height, in case you think I could use it soon.
Well, do try to start clicking and jackpotting! You can also add some more height and you can play with colours a little, but always first as we were discussing before: put the coloured area on the top first and only turn it around when she is running nicely on it for several sessions. Meantime, keep adding height, we need some more height before we can use a dog-walk.
I taped a short experiment with colors (less than 2 minutes) before I read your response, so I am still ‘yoohooing’ rather then clicking on it. But that will change on my next session.
I don’t understand the part where you say ‘put the coloured area on the top first…’
Cool, looks good, she doesn’t look distracted too much! In case she were, you could follow my suggestion to introduce a coloured mat at the beginning of the plank, not at its end (at this height, “top” was not the best word to choose, no! 🙂 ), so that her first stride is on yellow, not the last. But again, she doesn’t seem bothered enough to have to do that.
Thanks again for your feedback !
Here is a video of the rest of my homework for lesson 1 :
Very nice! Once she gets fluent with full circles, you do want to get the same in the other direction too, we’ll need both direction for another trick we’ll teach after everybody masters this one in both directions.
Hi Silvia,
I think I might have been lucky with my above ‘color experience’ video. The 2 tries on the video where she did not leap over the original flashy yellow colour in the contact zone position are still the only ones to this day.
I have now a mini A-Frame set up with 1 by 8 feet plank followed by and 1 by 12 feet plank both covered by beige and grey carpet. I have 2 bricks on top of each other where the two planks meet.
I put a bright yellow mat in different places on the boards and she leaps every time I put it at the very end where the contact zone should be and never when I put it elsewhere.
Question 1 : Do you think I should keep raising the height while moving the yellow around or wait until she no longuer leaps when the yellow is in the contact zone position before raising ?
Question 2 : Do you think that there is a danger of becoming too dependant on the ball if I wait too long before phasing it out ?
Question 3 : If so, do you have an approximate idea of how long could be too long ?
Thank’s a lot !
Claire
Very strange problem indeed… How about if the whole plank is in yellow? And then you slowly start making the other part of the plank not-yellow? Or if you get a greyish yellow somewhere and first use that one? At the same time as playing with the colours, I would raise a plank a little here and there, it won’t make the yellow problem worse. And no, don’t worry about the ball, I keep throwing it for very long with dogs who don’t run well to stationary toy -- with Le, I was throwing it for months, even when we were on full height already. I will explain the process to get rid of it in next assignment, but don’t rush with it too much, getting rid of the yellow problem is more important at this point.
ok thanks a lot Silvia !
Hi Silvia,
Here is my first session in a new environnement. I move yellow-beige than flashy-yellow more and more down the planks with no leaping (we’ve been practicing :-).
Can’t wait to read your comments as usual :-),
Claire
GREAT!!! 9 is not too bad either -- as the rest were nicer, you could of course also not click it, but no big deal if you did, it was not a leap, just a high hit. Time to add some height and if that goes well, also start varying your position and start with lesson 3. Great job!
I forgot to mention that I don’t click or jackpot for now. I simply yell ‘woohoo’ when she is running on the last 3 feet of the carpet and pay when she brings the ball back..
Hi there, i have just manage to edit our last sesion from saturday, we did 3 in the day as we had some more time being saturday, this was a short one, 1st day with some height. These are all hits in the last sesion none taken out ie bad ones. what do you think and can we go up with some more height? Thanks will try get tricks on video too soon. Thank you.
Oh dear i dont thinkt i have done it right!
The correct form of a link is httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v= and then the code, specific for your video, in thsi case TSrMh4cN8PA -- that gives you:
Perfect! Ready for lesson 2 and some more height.
thank you will get going with next lesson.
httpv://www.dailymotion.com/video/k7xeq9YWre4Fxw28aQF
Voici le travail avec la planche un peu surélevée (début hier). Le passage n°1 est mauvais et le 4 elle saute !. Pour moi les autres passages sont bons sauf que je trouve qu’elle met les pattes très bas sur la planche … un peu trop ? ? tu me diras ? Parfois ses pieds sortent un peu de la planche ! mais bon elle est encore très chiot et comme elle me semble faire un bon running ça me gène pas ! Je ne fais jackpot que sur les très bonnes.
Here working with the plank a bit elevated (early yesterday). The portion 1 is bad and 4 she jump!. For me the other passages are good except I think her paws are very low on the board … too? ? you tell me? Sometimes her feet are out of the plank! but she is still puppy and as it seems to me to make a good running it bother me! I do jackpot on the very good.
Great job! She sure is running GREAT (other than 1 and 4), those hits are all perfect, so you can play with adding other challenges -- like you, changing the position and adding movement (running with her on both sides etc.) and a toy, being thrown sooner&sooner. You can also add some height every 5 sessions or so if you get the same success rate as in this video.
Great job with 4in too, very smart dog! Slowly make it smaller&smaller now -- it’s usually the easiest if you do it by putting a new object into an old one. Also, when you make it smaller, you can lower the criteria somewhat and again click also for just 3 in or even for just heaving the hind leg, thinking in the right direction.