Great job so far everybody! Again, please see as many videos of others as possible and read my comments to others too - I'm trying to bold the answers you really want to read, but the more you read, the easier it will be to understand what you're going for.
But things are mostly going well now, the only problem that I'm seeing more as expected is "up-in-the-air" movement. It looks like some dogs are leaping in order to get away from the plank. I think it's mostly due to the fact that everybody is going for those narrow planks and those are hard to run full speed on + they might sometimes be stepping on the edge and that can be uncomfortable and make them want to leave it as soon as possible. So again - it's no hurry to get to a narrow plank!!! If you can use two, side by side, with a carpet over, that would be perfect!
Anyway, here is your new list:
1. gradually make that plank higher&higher, still jackpotting the best hits, but make a criteria for a jackpot somewhat more strict and at this point also already stop clicking the highest hits even if the dog is striding equally - but at this point, don't click anymore the highest 20% of the hits you're getting (meaning that from 10 tries, don't click the highest 2 hits). It's no problem if the dog still gets the toy, just take it immediately when he comes back. When it's good, praise and tug and when it's especially good, be especially excited and play especially enthusiastically 🙂 And yes, dogs are smart enough to know the difference.
2. as the dog is probably already searching for the plank better, slowly start throwing sooner&sooner. Don't rush it, but you eventually want to throw that soon that the dog is technically running to a static toy. But again, you don't want to get there sooner as in 3 weeks as it's only then that we'll start using a static toy - you do want to throw it for those 3 weeks more! It's better to throw somewhat longer if necessary - usually not an issue with BCs, but with my puppy, I needed to throw VERY long to keep the speed and focus - if any of that gets weaker when you start throwing sooner, go back to whatever gives you back the speed and forward focus, we can deal with that later!
3. as you are still throwing a toy, your movement and position probably won't affect the dog's performance - but just to be sure, do try to run with the dog here and there, just to check if that's correct. If it does affect your dog's performance, add movement gradually, by first walking slowly along, then walking faster, running slowly etc. You don't need to do it on every try, especially not if it doesn't affect the performance, but do try it here and there.
4. another difficulty we can slowly start introducing now is changing starting position of your dog. Don't use the best spot all the time anymore, but vary it a little bit. If it makes their hits too bad, go back to the good starting position. But bad hit here and there is good, that's how they learn the difference between what gets rewarded and what doesn't.
5. new trick: shape a dog to go with all 4 feet in a box that is ideally as long as he is. Then gradually use smaller&smaller objects, your goal is the dog is standing with 4 feet in a small bowl. Good for balance and rear legs awareness! Also, teach backing up with you standing still, by throwing a reward for them first for one step back, then two and then add more&more distance. Great for rear legs awareness and coordination!
Send videos of the tricks and the plank work. For slow motion part of a plank work, PLEASE cut out all the parts where I can't see the dog! It's very time consuming and not much fun to watch just the plank or you, throwing a ball, in slow motion!
Also, here is a video showing different striding on a dog-walk. My puppy Le is showing the most common striding: two hits on up plank, two in the middle, two on down. Bu has this same striding. Bi can only do that if I start her from such an angle that she has no speed coming up. Her normal striding is 4 steps on whole dog-walk, on down ramp rear feet hit first and then she lands front feet above the contact, hind feet in the middle. I think that since US dog-walks are significantly shorter as mine, many of your BCs might end with this striding. Bi usually does shorter dog-walks in 3 steps (our dog-walks come in different lengths) - you can see one of those tries in this video too. She is pretty high on my dog-walk, but comes deeply in in 3 strides on shorter ones. At the end, you can see what big area she is covering with one hit, thanks to good reach forward and hind feet separation - with one hit, she is touching almost 40% of a down ramp, that's 1,5m!
Hi, Silvia.
Here is Callie’s video for this week. How does she look? I haven’t raised the boards yet. Is now a good time? If so, how do I set that up?
Great! But I wouldn’t jackpot 8 no (I didn’t like 8 of both sessions and 11 of the second one -- I actually wouldn’t click those at all), that one low front foot is hard to see for the judges AND is often accidental ie. the dog is actually trying to land after the plank. I also wouldn’t jackpot 11 (or 6 of the next session), hind feet were too close. The rest looks good, you can definitely add some more height -- just add another object underneath to make it higher.
Hi again :)!
Here is Da Vinci’s video. I’m really sorry it is so long, but I really would like your input on everything we worked through/ experimented with this week. As you know I was struggling with the toys…I was getting a lot of leaping and his interest in various toys was changing all the time. We tried thrown balls and food jackpots, but he was abandoning the ball to get the food. Then tried a food bowl, but he didn’t understand that he was to drive to the bowl. I brought out the Manners Minder thinking he would recognize it and run to it. He didn’t quite understand so I started giving a beep/ dispense while I restrained him…that got his attention and he knew there was kibble in the bowl so he started to get the picture. I started with the MM only 15 ft. from the plank so it was easy. Then at the end of today I moved it about 30 ft away to see if we could pick up some speed. Then I started adding a second beep for running and “yes” for jackpots. His jackpot is a food toy that I can throw to the MM faster than I can get there. Then I dispense the extra good treats from the toy to the MM bowl. I did that primarily so he would learn that his jackpots happen forward and not to turn back to me for the good food (you will see him doing this in the video). I don’t think he is running quite as fast as when I toss something yet, but he is happier and more focused…if he doesn’t get a marker for running or a nice hit, he collects his kibble at the MM and comes back for another try at that jackpot. I wasn’t getting that with the toy so with food, our sessions are shorter and more intense/ fun.
Do we continue this way or go back to a thrown toy?
Do you agree that a food jackpot needs to be delivered at the MM so he stops turning back to me when he hears “yes”?
Yes, maybe let’s continue like this some more. The speed to MM was definitely improving from a session to a session, so maybe we can get good speed that way. For now, jackpot at MM yes. Apart from that, I would still work on his understanding that to get to that jackpot right there, you first need to go forward to get the ball or eat the kibble. But you can do that away from the plank and for now just keep working that way. Hopefully, he once finds so much joy in running as such that he won’t depend so much on the form of rewarding. The good thing is that he either runs or leaps very obviously. For now, I would probably reward everything that is not leaping and jackpot the best hits and once you get rid of the leaps, stop rewarding high hits.
hi silvia
i know this course has just started but i am wondering when to start training turns. i have a good split leg run on lowered dw. do i start teaching turns now on lowered dw or wait till the straight on is established on full height first? also i will need to teach a stop as some sequences after dw are impossible. more judges are putting up courses to trap dogs with running contacts. is it possible to teach a stop and running? and when do you incorporate the training for the stop? what are your thoughts on it?
Sure, you can have both. If you decide for that option, I wouldn’t even train for turns, you can use 2on2off for sharp turns then and for mild turns, just move the jump after the dog-walk somewhat, so that he doesn’t think it’s always completely straight. -- We’ll get there in the next lesson.
If you are also teaching a stop, start teaching it right now, but on another object, like an upside down drawer, just to teach him the position, coming into the position with speed and independently from you and waiting till the release. You can teach all that on a drawer or something. Also, don’t forget to put going into the position on verbal cue. Once it’s perfect on a drawer, just backchain it on a dog-walk. You can do one session on just 2on2off, then one session on just running and then you slowly start to mix the two more&more so that he learns to listen. Always use appropriate verbal cue and help with body language too (running hard vs. slowing down), to avoid the confusion. -- But all this only when the position is good on a drawer AND you are sure you have good understanding of running contacts too!
thank you that makes sense. i will start working on the position as you have suggested then wait till the next lesson for more detail. many thanks very helpful.
Hi there,
I have been working with the new place a lot, but I think I have to give it up, it is not very even and I am afraid that she will break a leg. But I have found another nice place to do some plank work on so I will try to place a plank there (it is a public place but it is rather off-side so hopefully no one will bother. 🙂
I have a very low success rate at the moment, but I startet clicking and think that is a good way to give her a chance to understand what I want.
Here are two sessions, one on a field where I placed a carpet and thought to just play around a bit. She definetily runs different when she has more space and comes from a distance (rounded a tree). One of the runs were soo awful (she jumps like a deer), that I wondered if you could invent something else like “jumping-like-a-deer-and-landing-on-the-contact”? 🙂 I think we would have a chance there.
This second video is not our best ones lately. Todays sessions was very nice with almost no leaps, but I didn’t record it (ahh I pressed the “off” button instead of the “record” button). But I think she will get it now when I am clicking and will have more space on the public park. I HOPE atleast.
What do you think? I have only success lately if I release her very early. But I think that it is better to throw that way than having the big leaps?
And our trick for lesson 2:
Great job! Very cute and really great balance!
Gosh, that’s definitely the most leapy dog EVER! Her leaping as a deer try is hilarious. Also on a plank, she often leaps, even when she then lands on the right spot -- like in the try 20. But if you say the trend is good, that she was doing better lately, then yes, keep working on it, be careful to only click running, no leaping and try to tape it next time to see it 🙂
I am happy that the trick part got some nice comments. Otherwise I would cry out in frustration I think. She IS such an extreme jumper. I was also astonisched when I saw the deer jumping, that she even could jump like that..
I would really want some more running, and sometimes click leaping (like 20) since I happy that she doesn’t jump too big..
But don’t give up on us yet! Perhaps we will manage.. 🙂
Yeah, it’s really strange she is still leaping that way… Beatrice from Heidi was also very leapy in her first videos, but it went away really quickly… It’s usually only hard to get rid of it with dogs who won’t run full out after the ball (like in Laura’s case), but that doesn’t seem to be a problem in your case, that’s why I find it that strange… Did you try how she runs when somebody restrains her and you run ahead and have her chase you with the toy? Or maybe trying to race her towards a throw toy? Also, are you throwing the toy far enough over that carpet in a park? How far after the plank she runs?
Thanks for your advices. I have also seen Beatrice’s improvement (I try to see all videos and read the comments). I try to throw so that she runs several meter after the plank, but sometimes the ball goes shorter. I have stopped doing a roller with the frisbee as I just couldn’t get it to roll far and she jumped to catch it. Kicking her favourite football is rather good I think.
I haven’t tried someone else restraining her, will do that. Chasing her to the toy went well, will do more of that. 🙂
I would try to throw a ball so that she runs about 10m more after the plank, that often makes them less leapy as if the ball is close. Racing often helps too, so the combination of the two might give you what we’re looking for. Try to make a video to see how it went.
Hello Silvia and classmates,
Here is my last training session with Cora, I have several questions:
First, I have been training and a big doubt has come into my mind when I have to jackpot tries like 3 and 12 where Cora only touches the contact zone with one foot and she touches it barely at the tip of the plank. I some times think that it is risky to have her touch that close to the end, she might run with a bit longer stride and miss the contact zone. So I am not sure if I should jackpot those.
My second question might have something to do with the first one. I am not really sure if I understood completely one of our homeworks for lesson 2. On this lesson you tell us we should not jackpot the lowest twenty percent of the tries (I´m not really sure if I understand this). I guess this is to avoid what I was saying before.
So, here is our last video please tell me any comments you have and tell me how do you think we are doing.
Thanks 😉
If you see the discussions with others, you will get answers to your questions. In short: I don’t like one front foot very low, it’s hard to see for the judges and too close to the limit, so I wouldn’t jackpot that. By low, I had hits like 14 in mind, 14 is pretty much perfect- my favourite one from all the tries. I never said to not reward the lowest 20%, I said to stop rewarding the highest 20% 🙂 -- like 5 or 6 for example. That should be your major focus at this point: to lower the % of tries like 5 or 6 and get higher % of tries like 14 -- by jackpotting those and not clicking high hits anymore.
So should I only jackpot tries like 14? or should I also jackpot tries like 1 and 2 where she doesn´t hit very low in the plank but she only touches with one of her front feet?
I will stop clicking an jackpoting tries like 3 and 12 where I get very low hits with only one front leg.
Thank you very much!!!
For now, I would definitely jackpot 1 and 2 too -- or anything that is nicely and deeply in the contact. Your first focus should be to get rid of those high hits and then later on, you can get more picky.
Hi, can i ask please for the changing of start position, how much do you want us to change it by, is it 1/2 m or more like 1 or 2 metre just so i know how much. So far i have only tried 1/2 m difference but i dont know if that is enough for now? thank you
You can change it by 1/2 m every few tries, so that you change it for 2 or 3 m within one session -- if it goes well of course.
Hi Silvia, last time I posted I tried Rev on the full dogwalk and got 3 big leaps so I added my plank and got 5 more leaps and had nothing to reward in that session. On your advice I added my plank back on. I have had 5 sessions now with the plank back on and her performance is not yet back to where it was prior to trying the full dogwalk. At first I started with it high but have now lowered it some more because I was still getting what I thought were too many leaps. I am including video of our last two sessions and need your help and advice on how to proceed. On May 20th she still had lots of leaps, especially at the beginning, but I noticed in the last reps that she had changed her striding over the apex and was now landing with her rear feet just past the apex and that seemed to allow her to hit with her hind feet lower on the board. Maybe she was figuring it out?? On May 22nd I kept the board low and she was still inconsistent. I really jackpotted her last rep. I see from reading your posts I need to stop clicking for the higher 20% hits. I know I have still been clicking for high but “non-leaps” in these last sessions too much, but I was glad when she was not leaping. I will give it more time for her to find her stride if you think that it what I should do. I just don’t want to rehearse so many leaps if that is wrong. Does she have enough understanding to work through it or should I go back to a raised plank on the ground? Thank you in advance for your advice.
Well, that doesn’t look like leaping to me, she is running, it’s just the striding that is not as you would want to. I think changing the set up for every session (no plank, plank back, plank lower) might even add to the confusion and make it harder to sort things out, so let’s try another plan and do what I wrote to Sochana -- tunnel- normal DW-tunnel set up, just run it, ignore the bad ones and mark and jackpot the good ones. As added height seems to be enough of a challenge for her, I would lower the criteria of jackpots again -- simply pick 20% of the best ones to jackpot them -- so you did the right thing. It won’t hurt anything if she misses some, especially if she is actually running and is simply too high. -- Try to tape the session and post it to see how it goes and decide to either stick with plan B or go to plan C 🙂
Yes, I see what you mean about changing the set-up on her and how that would be confusing. I tape all of my sessions so I will definitely post them for you to take a look at. I feel better about giving her more time to figure it out, especially if you feel that what she is doing is a normal part of the process:-) I just didn’t want to continue if you felt we were going down the wrong track. Thanks again for your input!!!
O.k., let see what she does if you just run tunnel-DW-tunnel, no stopping. The reason I like that set up is because the tunnel is rewarding enough to keep the dog running, while at the same time, you don’t actively reward the bad tries and can simply wait for the good one to happen and then make a big party out of it.
Hi Silvia! We had two sessions of tunnel to tunnel on the full height dogwalk. Both sessions were all leaps, nothing to reward. I hate to even post this video but hopefully you will be able to work us through this:-)) After a couple of reps she seemed to be slowing down and not really powering forward as if she was expecting her toy to be thrown. Are the tunnels too close? They were about 20 feet from the dogwalk. How many reps should I have done with no success? I would stop after 6 or 7 dogwalks to give her a break since it was sunny and warm out. Our transition to a full dogwalk has not gone well and I really want to get on track. It has been a month since we have had a good session now. I knew it would be a challenge to teach running contacts since I am only able to go and use this dogwalk 2 or 3 times a week, but I know it can be done. I just need your expertise:-)) Thank you in advance for your help.
Hm, this is very strange… She doesn’t seem to try to find her striding at all, she just seems to try to get off of that dog-walk as soon as possible… And this kind of leaping started when you put the plank away? Nothing else happened? Like falling down the dog-walk and getting scared? She looks somehow uncomfortable on the dog-walk, sometimes almost as if she is falling and then she comes on a perfect spot to do one more stride and be nicely and deeply in… -- but instead of that, she leaps… Doesn’t look like this exercise will help. We need the plank back. I would put the plank pretty low, start her a little before the plank and try to help her as much as possible for her to succeed as far as throwing a toy, your position etc. is concerned. If she is back to running, I would then slowly move her back the dog-walk and put the plank higher again (faster as the first time of course). When removing the plank again, I would again backchain it: do only down ramp first and move her back then. Can you do some plank work also at home or you don’t have room for plank either? It would help to get her back on track, but I don’t think training 2 to 3 times a week caused the problem, I had the same situation when I trained Bu and Bi: dog-walk access two to three times a week, but plank more often. So it must have been something else, I definitely see some kind of discomfort or lack of confidence, just not sure where did that come from… Did you review all your videos, can you find something?
She definitely didn’t fall or anything off the dogwalk. She is much more drivey to a thrown toy, so that is different in this set-up. She is very toy motivated so maybe driving only into the tunnel with no reward is not motivating enough? I have room for plank work at home. I will work on that at home and use the plank on the dogwalk (starting low).
Should I backchain the low plank all the way to running the full dogwalk with it still low? Or do I get success with the low plank starting with her on the dogwalk and then raise the plank and still start with her on the dogwalk, slowly moving her further back? Do you know what I’m asking?
I don’t think having limited access to the dogwalk “caused” any problems, but it just takes longer to work things out when I have to wait a couple of days to try again. That is the most frustrating part! Is working on just the plank always a good idea during the whole process?
Thanks for the help. I will let you know how it goes.
Yes, I think plank work can’t hurt at any stage. I brought the plank out anytime we got into trouble with Le and I do down ramp only with Bi every time she misses the contact: if I just send her over again, she thinks it’s even more fun as doing the contact the first time 🙂 so for a missed contact, I always call her back and do down ramp only -- actually, it doesn’t matter where on a dog-walk I start her, she can do it -- what is telling me that she understands what to do, but sometimes fails to do all the calculations at speed right. With starting Rev on a dog-walk with a plank on it, I would like to get that effect: to always be able to get her hit it when things go wrong. Often, they can also focus on a job better when doing just the down ramp, so I would definitely do some of that, first with a low plank, then with a plank higher, with her still starting on a dog-walk, but as you bring the plank up, start her further&further -- and bring her closer again if she has troubles at one height. It would be good if we could get nice hits on a normal dog-walk, even if only when starting her on a dog-walk at first: it’s still better as nothing…
Hi!
So we’ve continued doing rc on the big field and it has looked good every time (at least according to me). This is the fifth session on a big field and the first session with this plank. The one I’ve used before was wider and shorter and you can see she runs outside the plank everytime I throw the ball somewhat to the side, but I guess that’s not what I should focus on, right? How do you think it looks otherwise? Ready to add some height soon?
Oops, something went wrong, I’m in a bit of a hurry now, but I’ll post the video later tonight!
Here it is:
And I was wrong, this was our sixth session on a big field.
And the reason I changed the plank was that the old one got sort of bent, it obviously wasn’t protected against rain 😛 I used a carpet for some sessions instead and then I thought I’d try it with a more narrow plank since that’s what I’m planning on using when I start adding height.
And also, she’s always doing cik/cap before running on the plank. Everytime you can’t se mee running ahead of Nyx, I’m behind her, in case you need to know that.
That looks good yes, other than that because the plank is that narrow, you have less tries that you could jackpot… So yes, let’s add some height, maybe it makes more sense to her to run on it then and you have more things to jackpot.
: (
My teacher (Sassie Frankie Joiris) is loaning me her rubberized DW ramp to train on and because this is the kind of rubberized DW Stella encounters in class and at most trials I didn’t think there would be any transition problem… but there is!!
In our first session she seems to be trying her best to avoid the yellow contact!!!! Leaping off to the side -- which she NEVER does or jumping completely over it in a way she has not for a long time.
So, if you hear me rewarding some bad hits at first -- it was with the hope of getting her back on track and to reward and encourage her to run STRAIGHT again over the board…
Weird yellow contact phobia, she even had to stop and sniff the yellow once… something about it bothered her…
To get her over that yellow-phobia, I tried having her just run from the middle over the yellow a couple of times and rewarded her for the last half of the board -- so she would know it wasn’t going to eat her.
She did give me some pretty good running after that, mostly high hits, but I’ll take them… and I ended the session with what I felt was a really good one.
I am hoping the setback is REALLY VERY temporary. If it doesn’t thunderstorm I will take her out again this afternoon.
anyway, I rewarded 3, 4… and 8 was a jackpot of squeaky toy play… 9 was my fault, a bad throw…. 11, 12, I rewarded… by 16 I decided to go back to food, that maybe my throwing was throwing her off too, so indeed 17 was rewarded because it straight down the board and so was 18 even though it was a leap, 19 was jackpot, 20 was rewarded, also 22, and 23 the last was a jackpot.
How about turning the plank the other way, so that she starts on yellow? I would do some sessions that way and only then try it this way again, to not get too many leaps. Because she sure did lots of leaping on that session! Some tries are very good, though -- the last one sure is perfect! Say hi to Sassie!
well, why didn’t I think of that?! I don’t think I would ever have thought of turning it around. I really need to get my brain out of the box more!!!!! I just feel so stopped by problems like they are a wall sometimes… and you just go right around them. : ) thanks
🙂 I like to see the problems as a new fun challenge! -- That makes them easier to solve! 🙂
question: so the color delineation of the contacts means nothing to them when they run the DW? they are not looking for it to guide their striding?
also, good news! the board turned around this afternoon WAS better!
Well, after seeing how many problems we have with yellow painting in this class, I’m starting to think they might notice and cue from it more as I originally thought! 🙂 -- I never thought that’s the case, but have started to rethink that after I saw how often Bu is very high on a contact, but somehow manages to always be in. Especially when working on turns, I got that feeling that she knows she needs to touch that red area (in Europe, the contacts are usually red 🙂 ) -- its’ hard to know for sure maybe they are really even smarter as I thought 🙂