Great job so far everybody! Again, please see as many videos of others as possible and read my comments to others too - I'm trying to bold the answers you really want to read, but the more you read, the easier it will be to understand what you're going for.
But things are mostly going well now, the only problem that I'm seeing more as expected is "up-in-the-air" movement. It looks like some dogs are leaping in order to get away from the plank. I think it's mostly due to the fact that everybody is going for those narrow planks and those are hard to run full speed on + they might sometimes be stepping on the edge and that can be uncomfortable and make them want to leave it as soon as possible. So again - it's no hurry to get to a narrow plank!!! If you can use two, side by side, with a carpet over, that would be perfect!
Anyway, here is your new list:
1. gradually make that plank higher&higher, still jackpotting the best hits, but make a criteria for a jackpot somewhat more strict and at this point also already stop clicking the highest hits even if the dog is striding equally - but at this point, don't click anymore the highest 20% of the hits you're getting (meaning that from 10 tries, don't click the highest 2 hits). It's no problem if the dog still gets the toy, just take it immediately when he comes back. When it's good, praise and tug and when it's especially good, be especially excited and play especially enthusiastically 🙂 And yes, dogs are smart enough to know the difference.
2. as the dog is probably already searching for the plank better, slowly start throwing sooner&sooner. Don't rush it, but you eventually want to throw that soon that the dog is technically running to a static toy. But again, you don't want to get there sooner as in 3 weeks as it's only then that we'll start using a static toy - you do want to throw it for those 3 weeks more! It's better to throw somewhat longer if necessary - usually not an issue with BCs, but with my puppy, I needed to throw VERY long to keep the speed and focus - if any of that gets weaker when you start throwing sooner, go back to whatever gives you back the speed and forward focus, we can deal with that later!
3. as you are still throwing a toy, your movement and position probably won't affect the dog's performance - but just to be sure, do try to run with the dog here and there, just to check if that's correct. If it does affect your dog's performance, add movement gradually, by first walking slowly along, then walking faster, running slowly etc. You don't need to do it on every try, especially not if it doesn't affect the performance, but do try it here and there.
4. another difficulty we can slowly start introducing now is changing starting position of your dog. Don't use the best spot all the time anymore, but vary it a little bit. If it makes their hits too bad, go back to the good starting position. But bad hit here and there is good, that's how they learn the difference between what gets rewarded and what doesn't.
5. new trick: shape a dog to go with all 4 feet in a box that is ideally as long as he is. Then gradually use smaller&smaller objects, your goal is the dog is standing with 4 feet in a small bowl. Good for balance and rear legs awareness! Also, teach backing up with you standing still, by throwing a reward for them first for one step back, then two and then add more&more distance. Great for rear legs awareness and coordination!
Send videos of the tricks and the plank work. For slow motion part of a plank work, PLEASE cut out all the parts where I can't see the dog! It's very time consuming and not much fun to watch just the plank or you, throwing a ball, in slow motion!
Also, here is a video showing different striding on a dog-walk. My puppy Le is showing the most common striding: two hits on up plank, two in the middle, two on down. Bu has this same striding. Bi can only do that if I start her from such an angle that she has no speed coming up. Her normal striding is 4 steps on whole dog-walk, on down ramp rear feet hit first and then she lands front feet above the contact, hind feet in the middle. I think that since US dog-walks are significantly shorter as mine, many of your BCs might end with this striding. Bi usually does shorter dog-walks in 3 steps (our dog-walks come in different lengths) - you can see one of those tries in this video too. She is pretty high on my dog-walk, but comes deeply in in 3 strides on shorter ones. At the end, you can see what big area she is covering with one hit, thanks to good reach forward and hind feet separation - with one hit, she is touching almost 40% of a down ramp, that's 1,5m!
Hi Silvia, It’s been a while since I’ve posted for this class. Leia promptly stopped running over the plank just after I filmed my first plank work video. I was stumped and frustrated beyond belief, I could not figure out why after months of running over the board she would choose to run to the side rather than on the board. I tried putting up a couple of poles to highlight where the board was, I tried setting up on a narrow strip of grass between my house and the fence so she would have less space on either side of it, nothing worked! I though if I couldn’t get her back on the board I would have to drop out of this class and reconsider training running contacts. Finally I decided to try going back to my regular set up (wide open grass, and no poles). At the same time I went back to my old way of throwing -- which is throwing the toy only after she’s on -or- in line to hit the board. It worked, she’s back running on the board!!! I’ve been able to raise it some too.
Is this okay to throw so early? Will I have to change to a static toy to complete the process? I think when I started throwing well before she hit the board she realized she would get her toy if she ran on the board or not so she chose not to (this is a dog who loves to do the opposite of what she thinks you want her to do and she’s testing me constantly right now). The game became a lot less fun for both of us and I was struggling to get even 2 reps in a row.
Sorry for the long story but I needed you to understand why I’m throwing when I am. The first 17 reps on my video had me wondering why Leia was not hitting the end of the board. From what I could see she was running on most tries -- hind legs were separated but it looked like she was leaping at the end because there was not more board for her to hit. Then I it occurred to me that the board might not be long enough so, I added another piece of plank to the end for tries 18-25. They looked pretty good to me. This is all new to me though so, I’m REALLY looking forward to getting your opinion.
Does my set up look okay to you? Do you think I should change anything at this point?
Thank you,
Mara
Yeah, that plank is definitely too short for 2 strides, so it’s normal she is high. But it has taught her to try to land after the plank, so on 15 for example, she is definitely lengthening the stride to be able to land on the floor. I can see the lengthening and up in the air movement on pretty much all the tries with additional plank then, I don’t like her movement there at all. It would help to have more of a close up, but I don’t think this is her normal stride pattern, so I would definitely change a set up. Can you get a plank of the same length as a dog-walk (at this stage, it can also be a narrow one) and raise that and maybe use this plank as an up ramp, so that she doesn’t need to jump on, it could be that affects her running too.
For now, you can throw whenever you want, we first need to get normal running back, we’ll address that later.
Since my last post our training sessions have not been good. Glance seems to be trying to figure something out- he has been shortening his stride on the down ramp or right before the down ramp….or maybe he is slowing down out of confusion because I have raised my criteria? Either way, he is missing… A LOT. Sometimes it seems he is shortening his stride and then extending his last stride to try and land on the ground. I tried starting him from different places, using a thrown toy, a static toy, starting with a tunnel, starting with less speed, changing my set-up, etc. but I keep getting mostly one stride on the down ramp- always too high. I’ve run out of ideas on how to fix it, and am concerned that he has started to shorten his stride too much, so I went back to a low plank today since I need to be able to reward Glance more than is happening now. Maybe I should go all the way back to a carpet? I am not sure where the hole is in our training, but I feel like we are not progressing….maybe we rushed through the beginning?
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Thanks!
Apart from fun part of training RC, there is also a frustrating part and that’s the “ups and downs” of training it -- looks like they got it already and then everything falls apart. I think it’s because it’s not just about the understanding, it’s also about experience and practice to be able to meet the criteria at that speed, especially when talking about long strided dogs. With BI, I had a similar situation: she used to do two hits on a down ramp when we first got to a dog-walk (normal height -- we only practised it on a plank till then, so she didn’t have that same speed) and they were beautiful -- like the ones I’m showing on a video when starting with no speed. Then, she started to fly the apex too much to be able to do additional stride and she was too high for several weeks before she found this new striding of not flying over the apex, but putting hind feet at the top of a down ramp first to then do another stride to a contact. Le also had a bad phase, when she was switching from 6 strides (that she needed when the plank was still there) to 5 strides.
I think that’s where you are right now. Did you notice a change in how many strides he does? Plank work still looks great, so no need to go to a carpet, no. He just needs more experience to figure out that dog-walk. How about setting U-shaped tunnels on each end and running tunnel-DW-tunnel-DW, ignoring the misses and marking and jackpotting enthusiastically if he is in? Don’t worry if he only hits 1 per 10, it’s a stage they sometimes need to go through. I didn’t allow La that phase as she was the very first RC dog and I panicked too much -- but as a consequence, I also didn’t get the same speed as I got with my next dogs -- AND La could take it as she is definitely not a sensitive dog -- Bu then forced me to let her miss (as she would slow down and eventually shut down if she though I don’t appreciate what she is doing) -- and introduced me to a new approach to RC 🙂 The good thing about RC is that that doesn’t ruin them, it makes them better once they figure things out. You could also try going to the next height, on some heights, finding the good striding can be more difficult as on others. Just don’t panic -- he is not jumping. He is thinking. 🙂
oh, I am so glad for the Glance videos and your comments. We have not hit that stage, but if I didn’t know it might be coming, it would worry me, a lot!
Heidi
Yeah, it is scary, after all the work you do! It’s still somewhat scary for me, even though I know it’s just a phase! I know to not panic, but a thought like “and what if it does not get better???” still sometimes crosses my mind 🙂 But so far, it always did get better 🙂
When Spur hit this stage I sometimes swapped back and forth with the plank and the DW so I could be sure to get in some more rewards, because as you know he is like Bu and would shut down without rewards. I think working both helped him to understand better his job?
Sure, that’s a good idea. I remember I used a plank for two sessions with Le too, when she was in her worst phase 🙂 But again, tunnel-DW-tunnel set is so much fun for most dogs that they won’t shut down 🙂
I think this is where I am with Maia right now. I am making the adjustable DW, it’s just not assembled, but I have the three planks supported on milk crates. I’ve had two sessions on this set up and she is missing A LOT. On just one elevated plank, she was great. I think I will try the set up you suggest here today: tunnel-DW-tunnel and see how it goes. I am still finding it very hard to see what she is doing -- shorter legs and lots of fur in the way! (I find that watching the taller dogs, BC, Aussie’s, Poodles etc. much easier to see if they are ‘in’ -- maybe I should shave her 🙂 )
Maybe, but Glance is working on RC somewhat longer and even for him, it was too early to just run him over and let him figure it out so we actually decided for more plank work for him. For “just run” to work, the dog needs to have pretty good understanding already. So what I would actually try first with Maia is to make it look more like the previous set up… -- By maybe starting her on the middle plank and then moving her further back before doing the whole thing. -- Well, it doesn’t hurt if you try both, just pay attention to her airy tendencies -- you don’t want to practise that! And yes, I agree, I find BCs long white legs the easiest to see 🙂 If you decide to shave her, you’ll be all trendy, it’s very popular to shave BCs and Shelties here during the summer -- they seem to do much better without all the coat when it’s hot and once you get used to their look, you start to love it 🙂
Hi Silvia,
I will post more video soon, along with my homework, but so far we are still struggling. I think the work we have been doing lately has altered his stride somewhat…he is consistently putting his first paw into the yellow on the upramp. His next stride brings him to the top plank, the next stride brings him to the end of the top plank- and then he clears the apex and his last stride carries him just above the yellow on the downramp-maybe occasionally he will get on paw in the yellow, or every so often he will throw a front foot into the yellow. But mostly his last stride brings him just too high. (I guess that is 4 strides.) It is the same amount of strides he was doing before, but he has opened the stride on the up ramp-taking him to the top plank, shortened the stride across the top, and then lengthened the stride on the downramp, though it still does not get him deep enough as it is only one stride.
It seems to me that he IS adjusting his stride, but he is adjusting the wrong one….I think he is shortening his stride on the top of the dogwalk so that he will be able to leap the apex. Several weeks ago he was happy to land on the downramp with his rear feet first, but now he is trying very hard to land front feet first. Sometimes he even only puts one rear foot down, so he can be sure and land front feet first on the downramp!!
I even wet his feet a couple of times so I could see exactly where his feet where landing. 🙂 One cool thing is that his stride really does leave many disctinct footfalls across the dw. He is covering ground nicely- I am just not sure how to get him to change his behavior.
I have tried starting him on the middle of the DW and then he hits the yellow evey time- but his stride is not nearly as extended or natural as when he is doing the whole thing. I have been raising the DW to see if that helps, but maybe lowering it would be a better idea create since it will soften the apex. I was thinking maybe a plank on the dogwalk would be better since then he would get to take his last stride from the end of the plank and get rewarded, but maybe that would also just further cement his belief that he needs to leap the apex.
I am thinking also maybe more plank work, since he doesn’t seem to understand he needs to take his last stride from the end?
I tried the dogwalk tunnel dogwalk tunnel setup you suggested, but it opened his stride way too much. I don’t think we were even getting one out of 10. I have video if you’d like to see.
OK, I went back down to the 16″ tables tonight and I think things went much better. Glance was landing on the downramp with his rear feet first a number of times (yippee!), though it seemed he was maybe shortening his last stride? What do you think? Sorry, the video gets a little dark at the end. I was thinking I might stay at this height for a while and maybe do some plank work on the side…does that seem like a reasonable plan?
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Hm, yes, looks like he needs some more work on his understanding of the importance to take the last stride from the very end. Because yes, on this last video, he could have even more even deeper hits if he put in some more effort and extended better to get in.
Basically, we need to work on two things:
1. better understanding of the importance of low hits. This second session focuses on that part: after the dog is successful many times thanks to flat plank and good starting point as in lesson 1, we start to challenge them to make them make a mistake here and there to be able to see the difference. This part, you can do on a plank or by starting him in the middle of the DW, to help him be successful -- and then slowly bring him further back.
2. learning the stride pattern of hind feet on down ramp first. For this, low dog-walk is the best -- better as plank on the normal dog-walk.
But I think you should focus on #1 first. Decide for a very strict criteria (clearly in, preferable with two paws), help him succeed by starting point and after a couple of successful sessions, challenge him some more, as described in lesson 2.
Thank you so much Silvia!
So we will work first on a better understanding of taking the last stride from the end and not do the entire DW until we have made some progress there, correct? Or can I do both at the same time? Would that be too confusing for Glance?
Also I am bringing the clicker back out. I had changed to a verbal marker since it was easier to use while running, but I think maybe I need to be more precise in what I am marking. Hopefully that will help with #1.
Thanks again!!
Soshana
Oh, yes, you definitely want to use a clicker -- I think it really helps them understand what it is all about. I would focus on plank work first, but do a session on full dog-walk here and there too to see where you are at.
Great! Thanks!!! 🙂
Hi Silvia,
Here is our lesson 2 homework. Our last 2 board running sessions are here as well as our tricks. In the first session there were 15 of 20 hits in the zone, 5 jackpots and 5 fails (do you think so too?). In the second session there were 12 of 14 hits in the zone, 2 fails and 5 jackpots (do you agree?). I’m thinking I’ll put Beatrice on the lowered dog walk now. I think she will have more success without the leap to the board. I’m not entirely pleased with Bea’s degree of hind leg seperation. What do you think?
It is a lovely day here in Oregon. Beatrice and the other poodles are going for a walk in the woods, HURRAH!
Oh, that’s a big Poodle for such a small bowl! 🙂 Very cool! But yes, hind separation could be better, maybe try rewarding with special focus on hind feet separation: for example, I would definitely jackpot 3, why didn’t you jackpot 3? 7 was perfect too -- those two are my favourite tries. From the same reason, I wouldn’t jackpot 12 and maybe not even reward 18, 22, 31, 33… But yes, you can try it on a low dog-walk and see what you get there.
Hi Silvia,
that is funny, I thought maybe I should try an even smaller bowl! I think I am still just learning to make judgements on the fly. Trying to see both lower placement and foot separation is still very hard for me. I will keep working on it.
thanks again
Heidi
Hi Silvia. Here is my latest session with Tai. Your last advice was to stay at this stage until I got better success rate (running through with no leaping) so just checking in. While I didn’t video my last session, I am pretty sure my success rate was similar to this one. So two good sessions in a row! Of the 8 reps, I think 1, 2, 4, 6 and 8 were the best -- maybe even great! 3 -- maybe my throw was a tiny bit late and he misjudged jumping onto the board. 5 was also good but his striding was a little different -- front feet at end of board, rather than rear legs as in the others. 7 was my only bad throw. Other than that one, which was my fault, I was rewarding equally for all the others, as my criteria at this stage is simply running through. Looking forward to your feedback!
Yeap, that sure was a great session! Definitely GREAT hind feet separation and mostly perfect hits. Do try to throw somewhat sooner though, that’s part of lesson 2 anyway 🙂 Looks like you’re ready for lesson 2 🙂
Ok, I’ll try to throw earlier. Also, I thought I’d raise the height after one more good session like this one. Do you agree?
Anne & Tai
Sure, you can raise some, he looked great in this session!
This is Rock last week. He took to backing up so naturally and at one time I didn’t notice he was getting close to an object he started lifting his legs on to it, eventually backing up onto it. Completely unintentional but I rewarded it anyway and now we have it! I’m trying to progressing it onto perches and hopefully towards 4 paws in a box but he isn’t as strong with that anyway so need to build more of that first.
That’s actually your next tricks to teach 🙂 -- very cool you mastered that one in advance already! How is the plank going?
I have 2 planks put alongside each other and then covered and have found he is much more confident along this than just along one normal plank. I have his toy tied to a long bungee line as well so he can’t run away, although we are making progression on retrieving as well!
Sounds great!
I just got back from practicing Sage and Oliver’s running dogwalks. My mom had the camera so I wasn’t able to tape. 🙁
I decided to try the plank on the dogwalk with Oliver too. I had it pretty low and experimented with starting him in different places. He didn’t jump but he didn’t really understand that he was supposed to take his last stride at the end of the plank. Most of his hits were high, maybe one foot in the yellow but his rear feet were clearly split. I think he just needs more time on a raised plank without the dogwalk. All in all though I was pleased, no jumping! He’s learning. I just have to keep teaching. 😉
I had a blast with Sage! I messed around quite a bit with the height of the plank and Sage’s placement on the dogwalk. I had both dogs running to a target with food. I won’t always do this but I forgot my ball (I had other toys but I couldn’t throw them straight) and since both dogs give consistent full speed to food I figured it was a good way to start. Sage was flying! She was definitely trying to figure out where she needed to put her strides. No real jumps just a few misplaced strides. At the end of the session I had the board close to full height and Sage running the entire dogwalk! I was so proud! She looked liked your Bu (ok well, sort’ve ;)! She was low, and fast, fully extended. My slow little Sage! Anywho, I just wanted to share my excitement. I’ll get a video soon. 🙂
Sounds great, very happy to hear it went so smoothly with Sage! Surprised to hear about Oliver, to me he looked like he knew it’s about the end of the plank on your raised plank… Maybe it was the new set up that confused him? Some more plank work would definitely be good, but when you can work on a dog-walk, you can still play with it a little. Usually, getting the striding right is easier the further back you start him.
Ok. I’ll keep trying the plank on the dogwalk with Oliver. Maybe it’s normal for the hits to be high since the extra plank on the dogwalk makes it longer especially when it’s low??? I feel like a bit of a cheater, lol. I’ve been focusing on speed with Oliver for quite awhile so he’s actually only had around 10 sessions total on the board and none as long as everyone elses. I’m excited though I feel like I now can focus on plank work. 🙂 Thanks for the feedback. I’ll try to post a video soon. Maybe I’m not seeing it the way I should be.
O.k., so you actually ran a whole dog-walk with him too? Was he o.k. running over it -- no fear, good speed? If the plank was still very low, then he was probably doing one step more as he will on normal dog-walk. I think his strides will still lengthen with more confidence on a dog-walk. You definitely want to work on a plank some more, but it doesn’t hurt if you do some dog-walks with a plank either.
No Oliver didn’t do the whole dogwalk. I tried different starting places on the dogwalk some at the top of the last board, some halfway on the middle board. I was just thinking since the extra plank added several feet in might have messed up his striding. Yup, no fear, good speed but I agree he’ll probably get faster. I worked on the plank today and I’ll definitely keep doing that and throw in the dogwalk plank set up occasionally. Does that sound ok?
Well, yes, if you restrain at the top of a ramp, then you get different striding as when running whole dog-walk anyway as there is no extension over the apex etc. So you can slowly start moving him further&further back when you’re on real dog-walk, but yes, still work on a plank away from that.
Hi Silvia:
This is our 5th session at this height. I have raised the height by 3 inches each time and the plank is now approximately 11″ off the ground. In our third session I started to throw the ball earlier and run forward with Bender. In our 4rth session I began changing the starting position, 2 to 6 feet further away and combined with much earlier throwing resulted in 2 leaps out of 13 runs. This happened when the toy was almost static and not thrown straight! My running forward when I release Bender does not seem to change anything but certainly makes it easier to see the hits! I presume we need to gradually introduce the challenges…
Notes on the video. In #7 and #11 Bender’s striding was different and resulted in front feet hits. I jackpotted these because they were low. Are there any hits I shouldn’t have jackpotted? In #8 the toy was released quite early and to the right. In #6 -- #9 I changed my starting position by 2-4 feet.
What should our next height increase be? Do you think my mini aframe setup is still ok? Is it still ok that I restrain Bender or should I also try sending him through a tunnel or around a jump wing?
Thanks,
Shona
Looks good! I wouldn’t jackpot 7 and 11 though -- it’s just one paw hit and very close to the limit, so… Low is good, but just one very low front foot… Not so good and it can be missed by judges easily, so I definitely wouldn’t jackpot that. I agree with the rest, your set up is perfectly good too, you can of course also try starting with a tunnel or around jump wing. You can definitely add more height. If possible, raising it more often, but not too much, works the best.
Thanks Silvia for clarifying those front feet hits. I will try and recognize those earlier when they happen -- they looked much better in real life than they did in slow motion later…..OK, I just want to be sure I understand. I should continue to raise the plank by 3 inches or so each time. And instead of doing 5 sessions at each height if I get a couple of successful sessions in a row I will raise again.
Yes, sounds like a good plan! 🙂
Hi Silvia, this is our last training session, I used almost the same start point, maybe 1mt of variation and I used as a distraction my movement.
I jackpoted 1,2,3,5,6,7,12,13,15,16,17,18 y 20. 11 she loks uncomfortable
, I don´t know if I am Jackpotting too much, I realized in the videos that her front feet are deep and some times hind feet are at the edge of the plank, is it correct?
We are working with the bowl, next time I will used a smaller one.
I will be out for 18 days, I will keep reading everybody comments.
Looks great! And yes, that was a good choice on what to reward. The rest, I wouldn’t click at all and from those, I would jackpot some less (wouldn’t jackpot 1 for example, but would reward it). I would jackpot 11, though, it was good. Front foot in the beginning of a contact and hind feet at the very end are o.k., of course! Very nice 4in too!
Hi there Silvia. The video is of today and we have worked on raising the height over the week. I am not sure if we are to try all the different things in lesson 2 on all heights or just when we have some height like we do have now? And is it time to add the flat of the dog work or the whole dog walk but low as the height is now and then carry on with height increase? thanks so much.
Sure, if you have a low dog-walk, you can use that. You then try some of the things from lesson 2 on that height and if it’s still going well, you can add some more height and if that’s o.k., add some more variables and then again some height + some of lesson 2 things -- you need to introduce them very gradually. The first would be to stop clicking the high ones (like 6, 8 and similar). And hey, GREAT distance with backing up and GREAT 4in! Graduating puppy class will be a piece of cake! 🙂
Hi there thanks so much. For now today i have done a session and stopped rewarding the high hits and tried throughing the ball a little earlier, that all went well, her hits are still at least mostly good.
Can i ask though if you would prefer us to use the plank for now still with some more height in a few days and then transfer it to an exstention of the dog walk as i have seen some do, and then raise it slowly and then only go to full lenght dog walk. what would you do? I am not in a rush to do full dog walk just want to do what you think is best for my dog in this class. I guess it will be different having used the cone to go around as to restraining on the dog walk once we transfer to that but is that ok? Thanks so much we are enjoying this so much.
If you have an option of a lowered dog-walk, I think that would be good to try. You don’t need to the the whole thing every time then, you can combine it with plank work too, but as she is doing so well on a plank, I think she is ready to try the real thing too 🙂