And here comes lesson 4 for those who are still keeping up, meaning that you're already running full low DW with a jump or a tunnel after it. For those who are not there yet - don't even try it, keep sending videos of whereever you are and watch videos of others to get a good picture of what this lesson is about and you can work on it later on.
1. Start moving the jump after which the dog is getting his toy A LITTLE in different directions: left and right, rotating it somewhat etc. If it makes the dog fail, set it back to help the dog succeed and then move it again by really VERY little tiny bit. It's better to move it a little every two tries as to move it a lot every two sessions! Keep rewarding by throwing a toy after the contact is done, over the jump. Try to sometimes use a tunnel instead of a jump too. Go through all the possible positions of the jump that still allow the dog to get the jump without collection on a dog-walk. When the dog is fine with that, try adding more jumps around so that there are more possible options. Try running into nothing (no obstacles ahead) too. You want to address all possible course situations other than real turns - we'll get there in the next session.
2. Time to start with an A-frame too! - For all who are already doing the whole DW on at least half height.
Put the A-frame somewhat lower (1,5m maybe) and try running the dog over. I recommend less speedy approach first (starting close to the base of an A-frame) as dogs who were trained to RUN over planks tend to run up so fast they then fly over the top so much that it's not unusual they only land on the floor... If you see your dog doesn't have such tendencies, add more&more speed to the approach AND make it steeper and steeper, I usually go to full height in one session.
Don't worry if not all contacts are perfect at first, they will probably need to experiment some at first. They often first go for one stride but then change to two as it's more comfortable striding for them - or sometimes medium dogs start with two that are too short to get in but then start to extend more and are nicely in with two. Many long-strided dogs will go for one, Bi is always doing one and used to sometimes be somewhat high, but is now always nicely in, even on not so speedy approaches. Bu will normally do two, but sometimes also does one and interestingly, is always in even when she goes for one. Le does two and is sometimes somewhat high as she once flew over the top so much that she crashed to the floor really badly and is now somewhat too careful at the top - but getting in nicer with time and experience.
The thing that I said for running contacts: that the good thing is that they only get better, even if you don't do anything about it... - It's especially true for A-frame. I simply put it in sequences at the second session and they just get better&better. The only problem we ever had with A-frames was with "limit" dogs who were too far with one/two strides that they could make another one, but too high to be in with that one/two strides. You do need to do some more sessions on just A-frame with those dogs and select for good ones. Experiment a little with what gives you best hits as far as handler position and timing of a thrown ball (in advance vs. after the contact) and use that for a start.
With a good hit, I mean anything clearly in. You do NOT want them to generalize DW style too good as you do NOT want them too deep, it's physically too hard on them and they might prefer to not do it if you ask them to come too deep - remember, the easier behaviour is for them, the easier it is for you to maintain it. You are again looking for hind feet separation and you don't want it any deeper as that:
3. Tricks: let's do some pivoting again, this time so that you position yourself next to the target and only click for coming all the way to your leg, touching it. Then either move away and have them follow you or have them pivot back to the other leg. Once they understand the leg is their new object to target, switch to a flat target and then fade it. We need them to know to come to both legs without the target for the next trick.
The other trick we need till next time, for being able to introduce turns, is going tightly around a pole, cik&cap. Shape the dog to wrap the pole/table leg/whatever tightly and put it on a verbal cue.
Hi Silvia,
I think I’m in troubles with our Running Contact:
Karmen is now running with confidence and faster on the low DW. But she leaps most of the time and lost her hind feet separation.
Since it has been rainning so much I couldn’t compensate the technic at home (to slipery). Yesterday when I finally could (at home), she was much worse than before…
Would you have an idea to work on?
Thank you
Céline
Of course I have 🙂 It’s what I’m saying the whole time already: a plank with full speed and then raising it. I said right away that you can train some at home, but that it won’t be enough, that you will need to train with more room and more speed too. You need to train just the plank, outside, with full speed. There is no way around it.
Well… it would be so easy with a 30m corridor at home to make my set-up exactly how she needs it path by path…
I’ll bring my plank to the club tomorrow.
But I won’t be able to adjust the set-up easily as I have to tidy everything before leaving… Especially the set-up (where I was before everything felt into pieces) up ramp-table- down ramp is impossible…
I’ll only be able to put my plank over the low DW to make the down part smoother.
Do you think I can make it?
Have you ever had a student in my case that succeeded in having a nice RC?
I’m kind of desperate because yesterday we trained with a plank on the ground at the club and she was leaping all the time. So I’m now on lesson 1… after 3 months working every 2 days on it…
Thank you
Of course, all my students in Ljubljana live in flats and then go to the club to practice or take their plank to the park. I lived in a flat until one year ago too, so La, Bu and Bi were trained that way too. Everything is possible if you want it badly enough!
Message to Amy:
Hi Amy,
I saw your video from last week with your noise system.
What do you think about it?
In which cases would you think it could work?
How much does it cost?
Where can we buy it?
Thank you
Céline
Hi Celine,
we bought one of the mats Silvia wrote about on her side. They are as long as the contact zone and they are easy to fix. There is a firm in the netherlands where you can get them (this is also cheaper ….). I used them because I clicked to often for nothing and so I used this sound just as signal for me to click. So I didn`t click leaps any more ( or even less..) and Fine got a better understanding of what to do. But you can train your ability to click in the very right moment also by watching videos, your own ones and also the videos of other dogs. I trained to click this way to.
You can`t use the mats and hit-it boards while it is raining and it is more complicate to begin the training when you have to fix the mats or boards before.
I hope this will help you with your decision.
I can tell you. A plank/mat doesn’t WORK, but it HELPS in cases when you already got the running part, but have hard time with seeing&marking hits. In your case, it’s the last thing you need and I really do NOT recommend it at all. Karmen’s hits are very easy to see and you’re marking it all right. It’s NOT your problem at all! Your problem is that you didn’t do much if any full speed plank running. You should forget about the hits all together at this point and focus on RUNNING. After you have running, hits will be easy to get, but no board/mat will help you with it and would be very contra-productive at the stage you are. Amy and Brigit used it in a completely different stage of their training and for a help for completely different problem.
Oh, thanks Silvia for that which I forgot!! YES, Spur was already running full out on a flat plank and slightly raised plank without the use of the electric beeps. In fact, I had no trouble seeing his hits on the planks as his striding wasn’t the same and was much smoother. My trouble was once raised considerably his striding was so odd with his adjustments I simply had trouble seeing things.
Absolutely, we didn’t use them until MUCH later in his training! 😀
Amy
Yeap, those little legs can be hard to see sometimes. For me, it’s really much harder to click for La&Le as it is for Bu&Bi. So I think with Karmen’s legs, that’s really not an issue 🙂
Yes, I used it just for me to learn NOT to click when there wasn`t any hit. I saw the hits and the leaps but I often clicked for accident. So the sound told me when I had to click or not and Fine had the chance to get a better understanding because of my more reliabe way to click. But as I said before, I also could have learned this by watching videos again and again…
Hi Celine,
It is called a “hit-it” board and if you search that on google it should come up. I bought two, but my father in law wired both of them to one sound box. I can’t remember exactly how much, like $150? Each, but less for the one without the box.
I think they were very helpful to me because I had trouble seeing his hits.
However, there are some concerns. They might move and that could be a real issue for some dogs. I think you could figure out how to strap them on maybe? Spur doesn’t weight much, so he rarely moved them, but when he did I could see it affected him some. I felt it was worth it for me and would just be sure they were stabilized better, because it sure increased my ability to see the hits. I KNEW he hit because it beeps.
Also, there is the down side of -- if he hits the slats and or the part where there isn’t a board as they are only 12″ wide and fit between the slats, there won’t be a beep. I learned to see those and would reward. I don’t think he was totally rewarded by the sound of the beeps because he seemed to adjust fine once I stopped using them. I am a terrible clicker, so I do think they helped me. I used them on the top 2/3rds of the contact because that was his most likely hit area, but on occasion he would hit the last 1/3 and I had to learn to see those. I felt very attached to them and had to wean myself off them, LOL!! 😀
Amy
Hi Silvia, I want to give you an update. I had a horrible session with Saga last Thursday. Her striding was off and I wanted to help her so I tried to back chain and she leaped off the horizontal plank of the dw twice. She clearly had had it. I’m giving her a break on the dw. I’ve also had time to review my video and I plan to lower the dw to a height that she was being very successful at. I think I progressed her too quickly because I’ve been worried about the weather…bad trainer. I’ll work on a-frame and tricks.
Sondra
If you have a video, post it. Sometimes sessions that people call terrible are not all that terrible at all and there is an easy solution to it 🙂
Ps. I think first off I changed two variables, the height and the location of the tunnel….I’m so mad at myself.
Here’s the video. Let me know what you think.
Huh, yes, she sure got very confused… Looks like she is going for one hit on a down ramp first and misses and then redoing from the middle really confuses her… Have you done it before, should she know this starting spot? A little break and then a lower DW will hopefully get her back on the right track…
Yes, I used that set up before when she was first introduced to the low dw. I’ve used it on occasion when she has gotten into the one hit pattern on the down. Maybe I’ve confused her with doing that. I was trying to remind her what behavior gets a reward. She is a perfectionist with a slightly soft side so I try to set her up so she has a high rate of success. Thanks for your feedback.
Sure, it’s perfectly o.k. to start the dog like this if they understand it. I just asked because it seemed to confuse her, but maybe, she was already stressing at this point…
I understand what you mean and I think you´re right -- he is avoiding to stride over the second apex… It might be because of his fall off the dw 3/11?
I´ve been watching all the films of Ninja since we started the rc-training to decide how much I need to lower the dw. I noticed that he actually did stride over the apex a couple of times after his fall. Hopefully he will gain his confidence and start to elongate the third stride to do it more often…
I´ve put together some clips from before and after he fell. (In the last repettion he manages to use 4 strides and hit the contact with hindlegs without striding ove the second apex)
I guess I just have to keep letting him run over the low dw..?
Yeap, it certainly could be because of his fall, I know he used to stride over it before… That last try was sure great, but I would also call that one striding over an apex (vs. flying over the apex) as he puts front feet one on a top plank, one on a down plank (followed by hind feet), no flying over as he likes to do now. Hopefully, low DW will help to get that back yes.
Hi again, excuse me for bombarding you with films today…
I think I got some striding over the second apex (and hindlegs on contact) when I send him to a tunnel before the (low) dw and threw a toy as he ran this afternoon!
I also tried the 2-tunnels-setup. That made him run a bit faster and with longer strides but he also jumped some upcontacts… And when I were behind he looked back at me.
Do you think I shall keep working like in the beginning of the film (and maybe ad a straight tunnel before rewarding him) or shall I do a little bit of both setups?
He seems to be doing really well on both set ups! Interesting how quickly lowering it helped him stride over an apex again. I would keep doing some of both for now and then decide what gives you better hits.
Yesterday I had two friends that helped me again, so I used a tunnel between dw and reward (playing with a friend). We started with the lower dw and the first run was perfect!!! 🙂
But then it got a bit crazy? He started to really fly over the second apex without having to shorten the stride before. So I decided to raise the dw again. I don´t know if that was a good decision..?
He was still hitting the contact, but he started to shorten his strides again, sometimes used 5 strides, flew over the last apex and hit with frontlegs/overreachy…
I don´t know if it was because I used a bend tunnel after dw for the first time (stupid to change two things at the same time…), or if I raised it too soon.
Do you think I shall continue with the low dw or is the speed too crazy there? I would like some more consistency in his striding…
Did you get more tries like 2.1 or you just raised it as soon as you saw him flying? If so, I would give it another try as you got some really nice striding at first. If he started to fly consistently however, then raising it was a good idea, but you could maybe keep a straight tunnel then for more speed and more equal striding.
I raised it when he started to fly, so I will lower it again the next time. Do you think I should try angeled aproches if he keeps flying or starts to use 3 strides on the low dw? I haven´t done any of that so far.
Yeap, that’s a good idea, it should help against flying and will allow you to work some more on a low DW to then get more equal striding on full DW too.
Hi Everyone!!! Corel video editing program? Does anyone use that? Curious if you do and if you like it. Thanks!! Amy
Amy you need to switch to a MAC!!! Since I made the switch editing videos is so easy. I use iMovie and it is truly fun to use and now making movies is no problem!
Pamela & Cooper
I love, love, love my MAC 🙂 and iMovie -- it really does make editing so easy.
Oh, you are just NOT helpful!! ;D I end up with the computer “rejects”, so I can only be happy I HAVE a computer, LOL!! And it is a “dinosaur”. I do have an iPad, though, but the whole compatability issue is a pain. I am also looking into iLife for my iPad, which I believe is what I need to make iMovie work on my iPad? Right now I have iMovie on it, but it looks like in order to make it so I can do slow motion I need iLife? I really get SO irritated with technology sometimes. 😛 But, without technology we wouldn’t have this class!!! So, I really LOVE technology! I love-hate it!! 😛
Amy
Amy,
I went to Apple with that same problem with Slow Motion for my IPad2 and I was told that it is not possible to make a slow motion video on it. Let me know if you find a way; Right now I am using my computer to edit. Someone said you might be able to use YouTube to edit to slow motion but I can not figure out how. That might be easier for you. Anyone know how?
I use my iPad to take videos and then I have been using VideoPix app to see slow motion on my IPad right away so I can evaluate the sessions right there at practice.
That’s it for my filming abilities!!! Sorry not more helpful.
Oh, well, thanks Pam, good to know I don’t need to go ask about that. LOL!! Bummer, though. Yeah, I do have that VideoPix and that IS awesome!!! It’s just very helpful to have a full movie to refer back to as time goes by, as we are learning here.
Looks like ultimately I need to get a program that recognizes Quick time videos (from the iPad2) AND the videos that my camera takes. There are a bunch, but which one? Some nice specials out there right now, so I want to take advantage of the holiday pricing.
Amy Let me know how that all goes! As you may have seen I also just got an ipad (though I still have the pc to fall back on) I haven’t gotten any programs on it yet so I hope to learn from all you ipaders.
Hi there Silvia and Class Mates. I have put my DW down again to 5 sand bags high. If i cant see the O-R’s yet correctly, i did not think it was good too good to carry on with full height! Silvia i have been reading the comments with regards hit-it boards, is there an merit for dogs over-reaching like Spy using one or not? I was thinking actually more for me the handler to reward correctly as it is so hard to see!!! However if it is the whole zone then the 1 foot would still trigger success, or would you put it only on half the zone, that is if i where to use one. Good idea or not? Thanks kindly.
In your case, it might indeed help, the only word of warning is that those boards/mats promote front feet more as hind feet. To clarify it: I just recently used my mat for a couple of sessions with Bi&Le and Bi didn’t even notice it (that’s the way she is: too fast&furious to notice things) and continued with her hind feet hits. Le immediately noticed it and leaped off to avoid it (she never saw it before). After clicking her some for stepping on it to make her see it’s fine, she immediately switched to front feet hits despite she rarely hit with front feet before. After a while, she settled down and offered more hind feet hits again too, but again, she is a hind-feet dog. Knowing Spy and her preference for front feet, I’m afraid a mat/board will give you deeper hits… -- but front feet only… So… I’m not sure if it will help or be contra-productive… Learning to see it yourself would definitely be even better. Did you try just looking at the contact -- that didn’t help either?
Silvia, with Viper’s lack of wanting to extend her last stride on the full height dw, do you think a hit-it board would help with getting her to extend ?
She is probably the best candidate here 🙂 It might help her understand the importance of getting all the way down that ramp. But you would need two to cover a bigger area… So the cheaper version would be to try some carpet on a contact and click touching it yourself 🙂 and see if that brings her attention to the contact and helps her understand the importance of the end. -- If not, the boards won’t help either…
So you would have a carpet about the length of the half of the contact or the full contact ?
Also, do you think yellow carpet would be best or a different color ?
Thanks,
Tara
About 3/4: don’t cover the very beginning and the very end of the contact. Try another colour, you want to bring her attention to it.
Hi there Silvia, thank you, from your reply i will not spend the money on a hit-it board as it does not seem to have enough advantages, besides i have just signed up for AT, cant wait!
On a positive note we tried the DW again today, 1st Session back down at 5 sand bags. I did the “looking at contact only” and think we had a way better session both from hits point of view and me seeing what i should and should not reward. 🙂
Here is what we had: “FF Front feet, BF back feet, O-R over-reach”
1. 1 FF in then 2 BF in nicely split, rewarded and had a party.
2. Same as above
3. 2 very high, not split BF so no reward, got it right!
4. As 1 and 2
5. 1 FF ( O-R ) no reward, got it right!
6. 1 FF and then 1BF nice! Rewarded.
7. 1 FF then 2 BF not very split but i rewarded as she at least used her BF
8. 2 Nice FF split, rewarded.
9. 1 FF ( O-R) no reward, got it right!
10. 1 FF then very nice 2 BF split, so ended on this one even though it was only 10 reps, felt at least we had a great session, me and Spy!!! 🙂
Thank you.
That definitely sounds much better already! As long as you can see and reward it right, I’m sure she will be back to nice hits soon, she is sure trying hard to do it right.
Alicia:
I just want to add to Silvia’s comments that by focusing on the contact, I got much better at seeing what is happening. You’ll be amazed at what you can “see” with practice. Complicating our “over-reaching” situation was that Tai’s good hits were nearly all front feet hits so I had little experience in seeing RF hits. And he had little experience, obviously in doing them. So, I started each session with some rear leg tricks like backing up stairs, or 4 feet in a bowl, just to hopefully get him thinking of rear feet. This may have helped finally getting some of those hits. A couple of times I missed a chance to reward them -- didn’t recognize them when they happened — and was so, so sad. Eventually, I got better at recognizing those great rear leg hits and boy did they get jackpotted!!!
Good luck!
Anne & Tai
Thank you Anne, I sure am still leaning so much but as you say hopefully will get better with time thank you so much. I do alot of the rear-end tricks as we did the 1st puppy online class then AF and then onto RC1 then RC11 and now we have signed up for AT, but will try with “warm up” as you suggest with rear end tricks specifically thank you. At least after today, i know there is still hope.:-)
Thank you Silvia, as you say Spy is sure trying so hard she is just so sweet and willing. Hopefully i can see it better each day which will help her to be more succesful. We sure had a party like never before today for back feet hits:-)
Thanks kindly. Alicia and Spy